as promised... this comes from the Craig Ballantyne newsletter. I hope to hear from Kaiser about the spinning classes comment!
Ellipticals are Useless for Advanced Fat Loss
If you are using an elliptical-type machine for intervals, then I believe that you are not getting the results you deserve. In my opinion, the elliptical machines are one of the least effective methods for losing fat - just as bad as spinning classes (which I'll cover in a future newsletter).
Now you might know someone that is uses the elliptical all the time and is lean. But I will be the farm that they can thank their genetics, their strength training, and their nutrition for their results. I have yet to see someone transform their physique with the elliptical trainer. In fact, when someone comes to me with a failing program, I often see them using the elliptical for their interval training. And that's the first things I change.
The elliptical machine is sneaky, and it fools us three ways. First, you can get your heart rate up really high and easily. Second, you can get a big sweat on. And third, the machine tells you that you have burned an awful lot of calories (even though the calorie counter is likely inaccurate, as was shown on a CBS news report).
So why doesn't the elliptical work? Because you just don't do as much mechanical work as you do when you run or cycle. Basically, it's just easier and less effective. Getting your heart rate up is not the key determinant of fat loss.
Your body is a well programmed machine. It's 'wired' to increase heart rate and breathing as soon as it senses motion (that's why you start to breathe heavily after taking a single flight of stairs - it's not just because you are unfit).
The key factor in fat loss is the amount of work done. Until you learn to separate the influence of the two, you won't be using intervals in the best possible manner.
As fat loss expert Alwyn Cosgrove explains, "The problem is not the elliptical itself -- it's just that it tends to allow/promote momentum (as most people have the resistance too low) from bodyweight alone. So unless you crank up the resistance and actually produce some force and/or MOVE your bodyweight - it's nothing but momentum. So if you're not actively using your muscles to produce some sort of force you aren't burning many calories."
But even then, I still don't think using a high resistance level on the ellliptical will get you the results you are looking for. Yet despite their ineffectiveness, elliptical machines and the like remain a popular training method. But that's only due to the human condition - like flowing water, we seek the path of least resistance. We'll will do anything to get around obstacles rather than doing the real work required to overcome the obstacles. Given the choice, humans always go with the easiest option.
Compare the elliptical to the Stairmaster. Stairmasters are more effective but less popular. Why? Because we've found something easier (the elliptical) that still gives us the comfort of a sweat and an elevated heart rate (even if we don't get the results). And now millions of gym goers pat themselves on the back after flailing around on the elliptical for 30 minutes and thinking they've been shedding fat.
Training in your comfort zone is useless. Your metabolic rate will increase when your body is forced to change. The harder and smarter you train, the greater your increase in metabolic rate. That is why you have to do things the right way (the TT way!), to lose fat. As I've always said with Turbulence Training, the key to getting results is making your body change. That means using training techniques that demand your body to change. The elliptical will not cause your body to change. It is a waste of time.
So what works better? If you have my TT reports, you know I recommend the stationary bike. It's safe, effective, and convenient. You can work at a very high power outage, and that is no illusion. You are doing the work (as long as you are not spinning at a very high RPM - that is another waste of time!).
Of course, you can also use sprinting. But that has a few more risks to it, whether it is done on a treadmill (risk: falling) or outside (risk: muscle pulls - so prepare appropriately). Some other manly fat loss interval options are sled pulling, Farmer Walks, pushing heavy objects, wheelbarrow carries, and complexes.
I can't read EVERYTHING ya know!!!
So, what was your conclusion? BTW, I was just trying to fulfill my obligation to post a fitness related topic before I go to bed... and goodnight! [img]redface.gif[/img]
I'll give a synopsis to save you from scrolling through all the other posts. The article gives the all the details:
Kaiser's log: I cranked out hiit on elliptical today Kaiser's log: No change this week on my goal to lose bf
Craig in Kaiser's log: hiit on elliptical is useless
Cappy in Kaiser's log: I notice that when I do hiit on elliptical I don't get the same effect as when on the bike. My legs feel like rocks when I'm done with hiit on the bike.
Kaiser in Cappy's log: I'm super efficient on the bike, so it takes a lot more to get my heart rate up. On the elliptical, my heart rate gets up there when I do hiit on elliptical and I crank up the resistance. I'm not sure why Craig says it's useless.
Craig in Cappy's log: I'll quote: "Heart rate is not the key determinant of a successful interval. The key factor in intervals is mechanical work. Until you learn to separate the influence of the two, you won't be using intervals in the best possible manner.
An elevated heart rate is easy to achieve on the elliptical...but fat loss isn't."
Cappy in Cappy's Log: workout report: hiit on elliptical today with no resistance since my legs were tired.
(nobody appreciated my humor )
See what y'all are missing by not keeping up with the training logs?
Originally posted by MarineWithEgo: Can you post the link of where this was discussed? I sure hope that I haven't been wasting my time!
Next your going to tell me that my electric stomach belt hasn't been working. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I can't post what I had because it was a newsletter, not a website. You might check CBAthletics or look under www.TurbulenceTraining.com. Craig comes through here once in a while. He might see this and respond or you could email him directly. He's always been good about replying!
I'm also wondering how you feel about recumbant stationary bikes vs. traditional upright ones since i'm thinking about buying one. i've always jumped rope in the past, but it seems to be taking a toll on me with a nagging foot injury.
thanks
-jack
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I always notice when I do HIIT on an elliptical I still have some gas left in the tank when I am done with my session. But, when I do HIIT on a stationary bike(upright) I am completelty spent after my session. I guess this article backs up my expiernces...no more HIIT on an elliptical for me [img]smile.gif[/img]
Whatever works you the hardest and leaves you the most fatigued is shown to be most effective, go figure! [img]tongue.gif[/img] This is yet another good reason to listen to your body. How come no one mentions going out side and running sprints?
Originally posted by Canadian_Bacon: Anyone ever do hiit on a rowing machine? that can get pretty tough if you do it properly.
I do HIIT on a concept 2 rower. It kicks my a$$ every single time! Ancedotally I figure it must burn more calories because it takes as much out of my upper body as it does my lower. On an aside: For a real humbling experience check out the forum on the Concept 2 website -- there are guys on that forum that crank.
Of course, you can also use sprinting. But that has a few more risks to it, whether it is done on a treadmill (risk: falling) or outside (risk: muscle pulls - so prepare appropriately). Some other manly fat loss interval options are sled pulling, Farmer Walks, pushing heavy objects, wheelbarrow carries, and complexes.
Love those manly suggestions!
When using a stationary bike, do you guys adjust the resistance between your sprints and your "rest" periods?
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Some other manly fat loss interval options are sled pulling, Farmer Walks, pushing heavy objects, wheelbarrow carries, and complexes.
It is the Old School series! Check it out! http://www.fitforcecamp.com/blosxom.cgi/oldschool
I have clients sprinting while dragging a tire, wheelbarrow walks, 300-500 meter sprints.
This stuff really gets the job done.
quote:Some other manly fat loss interval options are sled pulling, Farmer Walks, pushing heavy objects, wheelbarrow carries, and complexes.
It is the Old School series! Check it out! http://www.fitforcecamp.com/blosxom.cgi/oldschool
I have clients sprinting while dragging a tire, wheelbarrow walks, 300-500 meter sprints.
This stuff really gets the job done.
Jerry [/quote]I was reading this about a week back, this seems really awesome and not easy. I mean sledgehammer strikes...that spells coolness if you ask me. I think for the average joe going into their local gym and hopping on a cycling machine is just, well, simpler and maybe more accessible. I've tried HIIT on a cycling machine, tredmill (boooo), and outside in the grass with markers. The gym I work out at currently has no bikes to HIIT on so I'll be moving it to the field behind my apartments for some sprints. I hate HIIT on tredmills, one there is no air blowing in your face since you're basically still, two the belt could slip and when you're going 10+ mph that spells emergency room, and third you have to wait for the damn machine to speed up and speed down. I am considering building my own sled though I'm not sure where I'd keep it. I only use HIIT for a 4-6 week phase every three months though when I keep my body fat levels in check after a bulk cycle, but it's pretty awesome to do.
Jerry or anyone else: Would you agree HIIT would be too demanding on an athlete's (specifically a powerlifter's) nervous system to be trained while training maximal, repetition, and dynamic efort with weight training reaching for PR's every week? Eric Cressey talks about it in this article http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;?id=548070. Thanks.
A tire sled, pretty easy to make? I imagine you just run some rope around or through a tire, and maybe stick a piece of plywood inside to stack some weight on if neccessary?
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Edit: That one didn't work either, wtf is the deal. You can find the article by going to wwww.t-nation.com and then click on Archives and pick 2005, scroll down towards the bottom and you'll see it.
Rev,
If you want to make a sled that is easier to store in a small space, get one of those snow saucer sleds, cut a hole for a rope and attach a belt or bar to the other end. This kind of sled has the advantage of not tearing up the grass.
Would you agree HIIT would be too demanding on an athlete's (specifically a powerlifter's) nervous system to be trained while training maximal, repetition, and dynamic efort with weight training reaching for PR's every week?
Rev,
For Powerlifting:
Weighted GPP, John Davies style - Some crossfit workouts - Westside 'extra workouts' - Med ball work - Tabata Work - some of my old school series
A good bet is to tighten up that nutrition also.
I always stayed within 7 lbs of my weight class - I found that added gpp work for 2-3 weeks before a meet helped. It should not be a total shock to the system though.
I think for the average joe going into their local gym and hopping on a cycling machine is just, well, simpler and maybe more accessible.
Yeah - I'm pushing the boundaries a bit in my old school series - but there is a bunch of people out there that are just plain bored with mainstream fitness.
Guys like you, me and people on this forum will always get our workouts in - We love it!
However for the average joe/jane the mainstream fitness message just isn't getting the job done.
Heck, I left the gym! I train people in the streets, on ramps and under Interstates - get them to think outside the box when it comes to their health and fitness - most commercial gyms...ahh...I'm rambling.
Something has to change - the health of our Nation depends on it.
quote: I think for the average joe going into their local gym and hopping on a cycling machine is just, well, simpler and maybe more accessible.
Yeah - I'm pushing the boundaries a bit in my old school series - but there is a bunch of people out there that are just plain bored with mainstream fitness.
Guys like you, me and people on this forum will always get our workouts in - We love it!
However for the average joe/jane the mainstream fitness message just isn't getting the job done.
Heck, I left the gym! I train people in the streets, on ramps and under Interstates - get them to think outside the box when it comes to their health and fitness - most commercial gyms...ahh...I'm rambling.
Something has to change - the health of our Nation depends on it.
Jerry [/quote]I definately agree with you. I didn't mean to down play any of your ideas or methods because I think they'e awesome and personally I think you're a hell of a guy, everything you say impresses the hell out of me and I think everyone else can agree. All of us here are very fortunate to have you here posting!
Commercial gyms are definately not on the top of my favorite places to train list, I think the whole training people on the street or outdoors is total badassness. Keep up the good work, and again I appologize if I came across as negative towards your methods, what I was really trying to say is most people don't even think to do the things you have come up with and if they were exposed to it more (which you are doing) it would be an awesome thing.
Originally posted by nanook: Rev,
If you want to make a sled that is easier to store in a small space, get one of those snow saucer sleds, cut a hole for a rope and attach a belt or bar to the other end. This kind of sled has the advantage of not tearing up the grass.
That sounds really damn cool, I'm going to look into building one of those, thanks!
Originally posted by Rev: How come no one mentions going out side and running sprints?
Although I think it was pointed out that CB did mention running sprints, there are some people, like myself, who just can't do that all the time. Since I've upped my racquetball to two days a week, my knees won't handle another day of pounding so the recumbent bike is the solution for me. As it is, I have a hard time standing up and squatting down in between r-ball days but, with a little warm up, I can get everything moving okay again. I just need to manage the time I spend doing running type stuff (thanks Bill!) so that I can continue doing it at all. For younger folks like yourself, it wouldn't likely be a problem.
However, I have been trying to figure out a way to do farmer's walks with materials that we have around here. There's lots of rocks... maybe I'll just load up the wheelbarrow and go for it! Speaking of, I know this is just a low-tech way to lift some weight but I can't find any info on what was referred to in the article as "wheelbarrow carries." Sounds like a strongman type of event... anybody know?
According to Poliquin spinning is "A complete waste of time. Counter productive at best. Want fat legs? Keep spinning."
That quote cracks me up. Anyway, here's a discussion on spinning
Also, everyone should read Eric Cressey's "Cardio Confusion" article at t-mag.
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so I keep up!
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