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View Poll Results: Smith machine or NO smith machine?
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Yes, I love them. They help be stay stable on my squats/presses/etc.
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4.12% |
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No, they make good gym furniture, and that's about it.
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93 |
95.88% |
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02-21-2008, 10:04 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Active Senior
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2
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Smith Machine or no Smith Machine? Holy War!
Hi, Guys:
I'm new to this forum -- been weight training for about a year with good results (ever increasing my goals and achieving them).
I've been using the Smith machine for my squats, but have read several discussions about limited range and not encouraging good form, etc. Now that I'm seriously including squats in my routine, I recently tried the regular squat technique just to get a flavor for the difficulty of the form. (It's trickier than I thought).
So, here's the question. If your trying to start with good form and build up strength over time, is it better to start from the regular squat technique or rely on the safety and control of the Smith machine?
Opinions welcome!
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02-21-2008, 10:13 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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supermoderating hos
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: A Place With A NASCAR Track
Posts: 11,324
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None.
(make this a poll to see how lopsided it is going to be)
__________________
Jesus and I both came back on a Sunday
"If you can't have a photo with the real thing, you can always fantasize with a cardboard cutout."
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02-21-2008, 10:16 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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I think, therefore I post
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 15,064
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Agreed. No smith. They do make good stations for things like pull-ups, recline pull-ups, push-ups for people with low upper body strength, tying bands to, etc. That's about it.
__________________
Jean-Paul Francoeur
www.jpfitness.com
http://forums.jpfitness.com
"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-Mark Twain
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02-21-2008, 10:17 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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In search of flat stomach
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,345
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And they make a good place to hang your towel. 
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02-21-2008, 10:30 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Watertown, MA
Posts: 6,707
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It's far better to begin with a free-standing squat, unloaded, and work your way up.
When you squat properly on your own, the muscles in your ankles, legs, hips and core work in tandem to stabilize and move the "load" (perhaps just your own bodyweight).
When you use the Smith machine, various stablizers are allowed to shut down, because that "control" you talked about above is being handled by the machine instead of yoru body.
As far as "safety", it's only unsafe to squat on your own if (a) your form is horrendous or (b) the load is too heavy. The really awful thing is that the Smith allows for bad form and improper loads. If you were to squat with 100lbs more than you should on a Smith and squat all the way down with bad form - on your toes, for example - you could actually do it, and maybe not feel that bad, because the Smith will assist you and keep the weight centered. If you tried that with a free squat, you'd destroy yourself.
So you say to yourself, "Sounds like the Smith is better beacuse I won't be able to "destroy myself"." This is where you have to realize that proper form and asking more of your stabilizing musculature actually promotes greater strength and growth!
I have no doubt that you can move up in weight and see some growth from using a Smith. However, I'm sure if you had started with a free squat and progressed from there, your results would've been even better!
Another, less concrete concept: relying on your own body for all of the balance and power in a lift creates a greater "body awareness". You think about your muscles differently, and feel them differently. This will actually carry over to other lifts.. thus leading to even more gains!
__________________
"Who the f*ck is Jack Narklison?"
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02-21-2008, 10:31 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 49
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I use mine for inverted rows, and hip mobility drills. My clients dont even get to use it for anything other the above.
Oh...almost forgot my 3 year old daughter like to hang upside down and practice her gymnastics on it.
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02-21-2008, 11:13 AM
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#7 (permalink)
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Back on Track
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 3,662
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Inverted Rows and a nice place to stack weights that you aren't using.
__________________
You can't have your six pack and drink it too.
190/40/39/34.8/33/31.4/30
It doesn't matter how fast you are moving if you don't know where you're going.
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02-21-2008, 11:19 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Seņor Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 7,025
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__________________
"Eat your vegetables." -- Mom
"Eat your god**** vegetables you little ****!" -- My Mom
"Eat...those...vegetables...or I'll RAM THEM DOWN YOUR THROAT!!!" -- Joan Crawford, AKA Mommy Dearest, AKA The Wirehanger.
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02-21-2008, 11:30 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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Needs a good dope-slap
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sugar Creek, MO
Posts: 6,223
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Ian - excellent info.
I seriously doubt anyone around here thinks Smith machines are worthwhile.
__________________
Keep your eyes on YOU; don't let the achievements of others dictate your obsessions. -- Alan Aragon
Log: 2008 is gonna ROoOoOoOCK!!!
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02-21-2008, 01:14 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Link-Zilla
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,151
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This thread turned into a discussion about the Smith machine. You might learn something:
Quote of the Year (no, century) from Muscle and Fiction
__________________
Lisa Holladay, CSCS
Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand.
--Thomas Carlyle
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02-21-2008, 03:48 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Prime Motivator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Stewartstown, PA
Posts: 9,674
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The Smith Machine is like spell check for weight lifting. It tends to miss a lot of things.
__________________
In Fitness & Friendship,
MAHLER
______________________________ __________________________
There is no light at the end of the tunnel. You carry the light with you.
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02-21-2008, 06:30 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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One BAD Apple
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 319
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Glad to see I'm among like-minded individuals. Smith Machines are not all at neccesary if you have good form and are using appropriate weights.
__________________
My Training Log
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses and some don't turn up at all."
-Sam Ewig
"If you don't pay attention to your ass, no one else will either."
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02-21-2008, 06:37 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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supermoderating hos
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: A Place With A NASCAR Track
Posts: 11,324
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I am officially calling out uthscsa19
__________________
Jesus and I both came back on a Sunday
"If you can't have a photo with the real thing, you can always fantasize with a cardboard cutout."
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02-21-2008, 10:34 PM
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#14 (permalink)
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Active Senior
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2
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Thanks for the feedback! -- aack.. I'm blown away!
Well, guys, I guess the concensus of the group is to stay the shit away from Smiths! I'm converted!
Thanks for your advice. I'll keep you up to date on my progress with regular squats. (Yeah, I know, they are a pain, but what in this forum isn't?)
(I wanted to say what the f*** but my wife hit me upside the head)
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02-22-2008, 04:07 AM
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#15 (permalink)
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Powerlifting
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,974
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Squats aren't a pain.
They are a joy, and a pleasure to do each week, although not as lovely and enjoyable as deadlifts. They also happen to kick ass at building strength and size!
__________________
Powerlifting Training Log
5'10
18yo!
Best Lifts in IPF competition:
@ 81.10kg BW
Squat: 205kg
Bench: 120kg
Deadlift: 215kg
Goal: 213.5kg/143.5kg/241kg total 598kg @ 82.5kg in a 2008 PL meet!
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02-22-2008, 06:28 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Back on Track
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 3,662
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Quote:
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Yeah, I know, they are a pain,
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Not to disagree but start doing Bulgarian Split Squats (add a shoulder press if you still like these) and Walking Lunges (with or without a rotation) and that might make you think differently about doing the standard squats.
__________________
You can't have your six pack and drink it too.
190/40/39/34.8/33/31.4/30
It doesn't matter how fast you are moving if you don't know where you're going.
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02-22-2008, 06:54 AM
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#17 (permalink)
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Powerlifting
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG300
Not to disagree but start doing Bulgarian Split Squats (add a shoulder press if you still like these) and Walking Lunges (with or without a rotation) and that might make you think differently about doing the standard squats.
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Well said!
__________________
Powerlifting Training Log
5'10
18yo!
Best Lifts in IPF competition:
@ 81.10kg BW
Squat: 205kg
Bench: 120kg
Deadlift: 215kg
Goal: 213.5kg/143.5kg/241kg total 598kg @ 82.5kg in a 2008 PL meet!
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02-22-2008, 09:11 AM
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#18 (permalink)
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 262
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The only use I've found for a Smith machine is if I have a knot in my shoulder blade or mid back. Just position it at the right hight, put a plate on to keep it still and then lean in. Other than that stay away from it.
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