If you bench in the smith and fail and you can't manage to push the bar up to the nearest pin then you're more screwed than on a normal bench. The smith bar can only go up and down, you can't tip it off you.
I do use the Smith Machine for things like Inverted Rows, Pushup regressions, hurdle movements, attaching bands, etc. but never for exercises like squats.
Right now the campus gym has one Smith Machine, one power rack, and one piece of crap that looks like it's supposed to be a squat rack but doesn't have pins that are long enough to catch a bar when squatting. While it annoys me that this piece of crap was used to replace a perfectly fine power rack, at least I don't see so many people using the power rack for curls anymore. Whereas when I was at Cornell they had tons of racks, but many of them were being used for curls. I guess when people know that there is only one place in the gym where someone can squat with heavy weight, they respect that area more.
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Manny Prieto
Columbia University
MS Candidate, Applied Physiology and Nutrition
AFAA Certified Personal Trainer http://mannyprietotraining.blogspot.com/
I saw a new use for the Smith on the Biggest Loser the other night. Jillian had one of the ladies doing step up and overs on a bench and used the Smith bar to stabilize her. Although my opinion may be scewed by the fact that Jillian was in the picture.
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They are a joy, and a pleasure to do each week, although not as lovely and enjoyable as deadlifts. They also happen to kick ass at building strength and size!
Ha ha! I always just say I love the RESULTS from squats and deads! Actually, I do enjoy deadlifts in an odd way. I think, as woman, it's intensely gratifying to be able to lift your own bodyweight (or more), and it's the one exercise where I can do that....maybe I'll get that high with my squats some day.
- J
Oh yeah, and I voted no on the Smith Machine. Once I learned it was OK to dump the bar, I haven't looked back....
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IMO the smith has plenty of uses, it depends on what your goal is. If you are bodybuilding the smith can go a long way in really stressing certain areas of your body effectively. I certainly believe that you should not use it as your only means of lifting but anyone who has done a physique contest will tell you that it has a valuable place in a program.
Consider this as well...a smith machine can replace a LOT of selectorized machines in a gym. A single selectorized bench press can cost $3000, and it only allows you to press in one angle. A good Smith unit without the extras will run you about $1600 and allows you to really make the machine fit your body.
Do you HAVE to have a smith machine to bodybuild? Certainly not, but it is nice to have as many tools as possible in your toolbox.
Now, a beginning lifter has zero use for machines except for a few pieces such as seated calf, various leg curls, etc. A beginning lifter should learn the proper form and execution of all of the basic lifts first, then add machines later.
I think im slowly changing my opinion on machine training (including the smith machine).
There are situations with injury rehab where things like the smith can be usefull. Also, sometimes you just want to be able to do some extra work without thinking to hard about it.
Obviously a whole program on a smitch machine is going to suck, but I dont think there is anything wrong with a few sets of presses/extensions (actually, these are great), on the smith after the main stuff is done, time permitting.
Then again, maybe im going crazy. In the last month ive starting to use a swiss ball and even some kettlebells both of which I thought where 100% useless.
Exactly Frank. Great point on hitting it when you are tired and don't want to think about it. Also on deload weeks. Why can't a machine movement be used to lower CNS activity in a deload period?
I like KBs but I will be glad when the hysteria is over. I'm researching to find the next big "thing" so that I can be there first. I think I'm going to reintroduce the barbell to mainstream America.
i don't like the fact that a smith is in one set line of motion. it just doesn't seem comfortable or natural. Squats on it put you in a position that isn't really like a squat, and those extensions do not look comfortable at all.
I still prefer to just use a barbell for stuff. There's no benefit over using a smith over a barbell.
it's not really the fact that it's an evil machine. It's just, why would you use it, when you can do the same stuff in a power rack with more benefits?
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it's not really the fact that it's an evil machine. It's just, why would you use it, when you can do the same stuff in a power rack with more benefits?
Let's take hack squats for example. Do a freeweight hack squat, then do a squat on the smith machine with your feet about a foot in front of your body. Which feels more like a machine hack squat?
Let's take hack squats for example. Do a freeweight hack squat, then do a squat on the smith machine with your feet about a foot in front of your body. Which feels more like a machine hack squat?
what would a machine hack squat have to do with it?
are there people that train for machine hack squat contests?
(obviously a regular hack squat is better than a smith hack squat, but why would you want it to "feel more like" a machine?)
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Let's take hack squats for example. Do a freeweight hack squat, then do a squat on the smith machine with your feet about a foot in front of your body. Which feels more like a machine hack squat?
why wouldn't you just use a hack squat machine then?
i don't like hack squats anyway. Power squat machines are real nice though.
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Not trying to be a jack-ass but why? Why is a smith machine flat bench press better for me as a bber than a free bb flat bench press?
I'm not saying it's better than ANY exercise, but to say that it's useless is not a productive way at looking at the machine. I used to have that same idea, however, over the past two years I have used the smith to really dial in on certain areas of the body and also to help train around injuries.
I think that saying it's a useless machine is pretty narrow minded.
My view up to about 2 years ago, after 20 years of lifting, was that it was only useful if you melted it and made Olympic bars out of it. I changed my idea of that when my powerlifting started catching up to me and I had to learn how to lift around issues. I never said it was better than freeweights. It's comparing apples to oranges.
If you have access to one, why not use it? Why not use every tool that you have available? If it helps a client to dial in on a muscle without thinking too much about stabilizing weight, then why discount it?
Okay gottcha... Yeah I am a bit perplexed RE the total Black/White view points that I often run across in the gym. I totally get that free weight is better overall becase of the stability muscle building but I too find using machines for specific purposes can be a good thing. I am using a Smith Machine tonight to do incline presses. There are no spotters at the gym and I want to lift good and heavy. It is a better choice than trying to lift free without a spotter IMHO.
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I'm not saying it's better than ANY exercise, but to say that it's useless is not a productive way at looking at the machine. I used to have that same idea, however, over the past two years I have used the smith to really dial in on certain areas of the body and also to help train around injuries.
I understand the bodybuilding argument for use of smith. I still think there are better ways to hit certain muscle groups than fixed plane but that is a different topic. However, I don't think I can sign on to the fact that you should be using the Smith machine to "train" around injuries. That is a bold statement. While bodybuilding is aesthetic, proper function leads to good aesthetics and that fact is hugely over looked (at least with natural bodybuilding).
You seem to toss around a lot of anecdotal information (my girlfriend this, my testing that) which is fine but I am curious of the verified benefit of rehab you can gain working on a smith machine vs trying to induce stabilization or to decrease muscle domination during recovery. Perhaps I am just not familial with how much you can contort yourself using a fixed bar. However, if it took all that effort, is that really safe for the injury at hand?
That's what is great about lifting, there is always the grey area, lol. That's also what causes a lot of debate among trainers is that little grey area .
I like to use the Smith at the end of a workout when I am bbing. Occasionally I will use it for pre or post fatigue.
For example, a few sequences:
Incline BB Bench
Low Incline DB Bench
Smith Bench Press, Flat
for pre-fatigue:
Superset
Smith Bench Press, Flat 5 reps
Flat DB Press 10 reps
Post fatigue
Superset
Flat DB Press 5 reps
Smith Bench Press 10 reps
I understand the bodybuilding argument for use of smith. I still think there are better ways to hit certain muscle groups than fixed plane but that is a different topic. However, I don't think I can sign on to the fact that you should be using the Smith machine to "train" around injuries. That is a bold statement. While bodybuilding is aesthetic, proper function leads to good aesthetics and that fact is hugely over looked (at least with natural bodybuilding).
You seem to toss around a lot of anecdotal information (my girlfriend this, my testing that) which is fine but I am curious of the verified benefit of rehab you can gain working on a smith machine vs trying to induce stabilization or to decrease muscle domination during recovery. Perhaps I am just not familial with how much you can contort yourself using a fixed bar. However, if it took all that effort, is that really safe for the injury at hand?
Sure, I throw anecdotal information around, I'm relaying experiences that I have seen in the gym from myself training and observing others being trained.
I never said that there was a benefit to rehab by working on a smith machine. I said that you could work around an injury. If you have a competition coming up and get injured you have to have a way to train around it, and machines are a viable option to help you train without pain. What are you talking about "contorting" around a fixed bar? Please elaborate because I'm not understanding that statement.
The Smith machine is a perfectly viable training apparatus. It is a tool just like any apparatus which provides resistance. The arguments against it are bunk in my opinion.
I like to use the Smith at the end of a workout when I am bbing. Occasionally I will use it for pre or post fatigue.
For example, a few sequences:
Incline BB Bench
Low Incline DB Bench
Smith Bench Press, Flat
for pre-fatigue:
Superset
Smith Bench Press, Flat 5 reps
Flat DB Press 10 reps
Post fatigue
Superset
Flat DB Press 5 reps
Smith Bench Press 10 reps
What is the benefit while bbing of using the smith bench press for post and pre fatigue? What is the difference between using it for pre vs. post fatigue? Not asking to sound like I don't believe you, I just don't know...ive never really benched with the smith machine before.
The Smith machine is a perfectly viable training apparatus. It is a tool just like any apparatus which provides resistance. The arguments against it are bunk in my opinion.
So the argument against squatting on it is bunk?
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It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
What is the benefit while bbing of using the smith bench press for post and pre fatigue?
As far as the post fatigue you can handle heavier weights safely because you do not need to stabilze the weight just push it and lower it. I am not sure what the benefit is prefatigue.
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