Bench Dips out?

[rwmct]

Ok, I see from the link to the Bill Hartman thread in the upright row thread that bench dips have a very poor risk-benefit ratio. I have always substituted bench dips for standard dips, as I can only do a few of the latter at full bodyweight, and do not have an assist machine. I am fairly careful about not going too low on the bench dips, and I do them with my feet on a ball and a plate on my belly.

If one was to look for a different exercise, are pushups with the hands placed closer together a good substitute, or does this have the same risk benefit ratio as the bench dip? I could do close grip bench presses, I guess, but I always figured the bench dips were hitting a bunch of muscles the bench press did not get, especially with the feet on the ball.

Thoughts?

[Lost Dog]

db bench press on a decline bench is the closest you'll come to sub for dips.

The risk is in the extremely compromised shoulder positioning with your arms on a bench behind you. Put your feet on a ball, so you're even less stable? Not good.

[Mon]

Close Grip Bench Presses

[Lisa~]

What LD said. Although I like the close-hands push-ups too.

[Flashy]

Seems to me the bench dip would contraindicate the shoulders and head you toward impingements, if you're not careful.

I always found them uncomfortable anyway and prefer diamond pushups or skullcrushers.

[rwmct]

Ok, Ill switch them out for the pushups or the db incline bench presses.

[I. Kay]

Originally Posted by rwmct

Ok, Ill switch them out for the pushups or the db incline bench presses.

Call me anal, but I'd recommend sticking with the diamond pushups instead of the decline pressing. If you are at a stage where you cannot do good sets of bodyweight dips (whether it's lack of strength, stabilization or some sort of pain), then you need to work on an exercise with free scapular movement, and one which requires stablization of your entire body.

Overload can be achieved with bands or chains, or even have a friend hold a plate on your back if you have to (try for the other two first, it's safer!)

With the decline press, it's just too damn easy to let your arms do all the work, to lose good form and let your "core" just lay there. The pushups kind of force you into doing the right things.

[Mon]

Oh yeah Diamond Push Ups. I never thought of these. I should put them in my workout too; however, its an upper body horizontal push, while a dip is an upper body vertical push or is a dip actually considered an upper body horizontal push depending if you are bent over doing a dip for the chest or not?

[I. Kay]

Originally Posted by Mon

Oh yeah Diamond Push Ups. I never thought of these. I should put them in my workout too; however, its an upper body horizontal push, while a dip is an upper body vertical push or is a dip actually considered an upper body horizontal push depending if you are bent over doing a dip for the chest or not?

Dips and pushups are horizontal pushes.

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by Ian Kay

Call me anal, but I'd recommend sticking with the diamond pushups instead of the decline pressing. If you are at a stage where you cannot do good sets of bodyweight dips (whether it's lack of strength, stabilization or some sort of pain), then you need to work on an exercise with free scapular movement, and one which requires stabilization of your entire body.

Overload can be achieved with bands or chains, or even have a friend hold a plate on your back if you have to (try for the other two first, it's safer!)

With the decline press, it's just too damn easy to let your arms do all the work, to lose good form and let your "core" just lay there. The pushups kind of force you into doing the right things.

Yeah, I find the pushups to be a whole body exercise. That was one reason I liked he bench dips, with the feet on a ball and a couple 25 lb. plates on the belly, I felt like a lot of muscles were involved just keeping it stable. I probably don't need any added resistance for the diamonds, except for shorter sets, especially if I elevate my feet. ( I pull a lot better than I push, but that is another question for another thread). I do have a three year old who likes to climb on my back when I do regular pushups.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Ian Kay

Call me anal, but I'd recommend sticking with the diamond pushups instead of the decline pressing. If you are at a stage where you cannot do good sets of bodyweight dips (whether it's lack of strength, stabilization or some sort of pain), then you need to work on an exercise with free scapular movement, and one which requires stablization of your entire body.

Overload can be achieved with bands or chains, or even have a friend hold a plate on your back if you have to (try for the other two first, it's safer!)

With the decline press, it's just too damn easy to let your arms do all the work, to lose good form and let your "core" just lay there. The pushups kind of force you into doing the right things.

Good thought.

[Mon]

Originally Posted by Ian Kay

Dips and pushups are horizontal pushes.

Oh okay. I should might as well just do Close Grip Bench Press or Diamond Push Ups and not do Dips. I think I am going to take Dips out of my workout.