I see allot more of performance coaches, well known ones especially advocating the use of front squat over the back squat in athletes. Is there any other specific reason besides lack of flexibility, depth, spinal load (not to clear on this subject besides the fact of less compression in the vertebrae)?
I see allot more of performance coaches, well known ones especially advocating the use of front squat over the back squat in athletes. Is there any other specific reason besides lack of flexibility, depth, spinal load (not to clear on this subject besides the fact of less compression in the vertebrae)?
I believe for many coaches teaching lots of athletes at once, it comes down to risk-benefit. Think of trying to make sure that dozens of guys/gals are back-squatting correctly... all at once. Lots of "cheating" will take place, back problems will arise... in a front squat, back issues are limited, and cheating is nearly impossible.
And from what I've read, coaches have seen performance results with the front squat that are at least as good as the back squat... and without all the risks.
So the things you listed, which essentially is the same as form issues and injuries... are the main reasons. I think that they're more than sufficient for most coaches!
Now when it comes down to individuals training on their own, for maximal strength, etc. then the back squat has it's place, because you can take the time to perfect your form, work out asymmetries and weak points, and not worry about declining performance. People that train just for themselves have all the time in the world... athletes do not. Every hour used on working on form or correcting injury is one hour lost for simply geting stronger for their sport.
Know something Ian, your starting to sound like a smart guy.
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Front Squat- Quadriceps dominant exercise
Back Squat- Hip dominant exercise.
Both are worked doing either squat, but the bar position changes your center of gravity shifting in the favor of quads vs glutes. Athletes tend to need more work on their posterior chain, so in my "far from professional" opinion, front squats may be the safer choice but probably not as beneficial.
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Umm both the back squat and front squat is a quad dominant exercise. Can anyone verify what smittygouv just said? I know for sure the Back Squat is Quad Dominant, but maybe he meant Back Squat is quad dominant and front squat is hip dominant? I think Front Squat is also quad dominant.
Hip Dominant are exercises like Deadlifts and its variations, Pull Throughs, GHR, etc.
If you use google, you'll see evidence that he's right.
Both squats use all the same muscles, it's just a matter of which group is used more than another. The farther forward you lean, the more PC you will use.
If you squat PLing style, you'll activate the PC more. Check out any of Tate's articles on T-nation or any squatting article on Elitefts. The focus is to sit back and activate all the muscles in the hip and PC. Those, they have found, are the muscles that can move the big weights.
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If you use google, you'll see evidence that he's right.
Both squats use all the same muscles, it's just a matter of which group is used more than another. The farther forward you lean, the more PC you will use.
Oh okay. How about in lunges? The farther out stride, the more of the PC is used as well?
I hope I didn't mislead anyone with my previous post. Both squats (front and back) are knee dominant exercises. The question was regarding the difference between front and back squats. Front squats tend to favor the quads more so than back squats due to the shift of the center of gravity. Just because the back squat uses more posterior chain then front squats doesn't classify it as a Hip dominant exercise.
The following definitions i got out of the book "Power Training" by Robert dos Remedios
Knee dominant exercises are initiated by the extension of the knee joint, which in turn leads to extension at the hip joint. These exercises begin with a "pushing" motion.
Hip dominant exercises occur with little to no knee extension. Initiation of movement begins with contraction of the hamstrings, glutes, or lower back and are classified as a "pulling" movement.
With these definitions he classifies all squats, lunges, and even deadlifts as "knee dominant". Hip dominant exercises are variations of good mornings, romanian deadlifts, and back extensions.
Deadlifts knee dominant?????? How do we feel about that?
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Deadlifts works the lower back and glutes and both of those muscles are posterior chain; therefore, I consider it hip dominant. Quad Dominant like squats, lunges, and its variations work the glutes and quads; therefore, I consider it quad dominant. The Posterior Chain is the core, hips, lower back, glutes, and hamstrings. Quad Dominant is when your pushing the weight and Hip Dominant is when your pulling the weight.
Of course with any free weights, there will be stabilzers and we all must have a strong posterior chain in order to do most of the lifts.
In both the back squat and the front squat, we are pushing the weight, not pulling. Deadlift and RDL's, we have to have the bar in front of us and we can pick it up from the floor and just go up and down with it. With Front Squats and Back Squats (even dumbbell squats), we have to have the weight either on our upper back (not neck) like the back squat, in front of us in a bicep curl position on our shoulders like the front squat, or on the side of us like dumbbell squat or lunges
This is how I know what exercises are quad dominant and what exercises are hip dominant; However, tricky question here below...
How about Pistol Squats (inner thighs)? One dumbbell is held out in front of you squatting up and down in a wide squat position. Yes it is a squat, BUT...Do you consider this quad dominant or hip dominant exercise? As far as the definition, it is hip dominant. Anything that you are hanging out in front of you below your legs less say is considered hip dominant because the posterior chain takes over.
what is the definition of knee dominant and hip dominant anyways? I mean.. I know what it is, but how is it defined? Is it what joint moves the most?
Knee and hip dominant has more to do with the style of squatting not just doing a front or back squat. People seem to be forgetting that there are MANY ways to perform a front squat or a back squat.
Doing either squat with a wider stance and pushing the hips back will use the back, hips, hamstrings more. (the front squat uses a LOT of back because the weight is in front and the back is what keeps the proper positions)
Doing both front and back squat with the feet close and squatting straight down will use more quads and be more "knee" dominant.
Basically what I am saying is "hip" dominant or "knee" dominant is more a matter of the style of squat as opposed to the type of squat. I do not like the idea of labeling an exercise as hip or knee dominant, given the fact that many exercises can be either.
Quote:
Knee dominant exercises are initiated by the extension of the knee joint, which in turn leads to extension at the hip joint. These exercises begin with a "pushing" motion.
Hip dominant exercises occur with little to no knee extension. Initiation of movement begins with contraction of the hamstrings, glutes, or lower back and are classified as a "pulling" movement.
With these definitions he classifies all squats, lunges, and even deadlifts as "knee dominant". Hip dominant exercises are variations of good mornings, romanian deadlifts, and back extensions.
Deadlifts knee dominant?????? How do we feel about that?
This is misleading because all of the exercises that were used as examples (squats, lunges, deadlifts) can be done using different styles. With all of these exercises the initiation of movement can be made with the extension of the knee joint or contraction of the hamstrings, glutes, lower back.
Again, I believe it is unnecessary, at best, to break exercises into knee or hip dominant. It is discussing semantics as opposed to what is actually important about using different styles of the same exercise. (such as muscles being emphasized and specific training effect)
Deadlifts works the lower back and glutes and both of those muscles are posterior chain; therefore, I consider it hip dominant. Quad Dominant like squats, lunges, and its variations work the glutes and quads; therefore, I consider it quad dominant. The Posterior Chain is the core, hips, lower back, glutes, and hamstrings. Quad Dominant is when your pushing the weight and Hip Dominant is when your pulling the weight.
Of course with any free weights, there will be stabilzers and we all must have a strong posterior chain in order to do most of the lifts.
In both the back squat and the front squat, we are pushing the weight, not pulling. Deadlift and RDL's, we have to have the bar in front of us and we can pick it up from the floor and just go up and down with it. With Front Squats and Back Squats (even dumbbell squats), we have to have the weight either on our upper back (not neck) like the back squat, in front of us in a bicep curl position on our shoulders like the front squat, or on the side of us like dumbbell squat or lunges
This is how I know what exercises are quad dominant and what exercises are hip dominant; However, tricky question here below...
How about Pistol Squats (inner thighs)? One dumbbell is held out in front of you squatting up and down in a wide squat position. Yes it is a squat, BUT...Do you consider this quad dominant or hip dominant exercise? As far as the definition, it is hip dominant. Anything that you are hanging out in front of you below your legs less say is considered hip dominant because the posterior chain takes over.
You should really reference your source(s) when cutting and pasting.
Umm I did not cut and paste anything for your information. This is how I type and if you read it closely, there are grammar errors in there and possibly some fragments that I usually always make. When cutting and pasting something, you will see a source included and especially really good grammar and no .... and such. Please act your age and stop accusing people of things you have no proof of showing.
Umm I did not cut and paste anything for your information. This is how I type and if you read it closely, there are grammar errors in there and possibly some fragments that I usually always make. When cutting and pasting something, you will see a source included and especially really good grammar and no .... and such. Please act your age and stop accusing people of things you have no proof of showing.
Actually you did, the message goes from I to "we" in the 3rd paragraph... Do you have a turtle in your pocket?
Hey guys... back on target please - front squat discussion. We have a rule here that you have to site your sources. Mon is aware of this now and whether or not this past post was cut/paste, she'll know for the future what to do when quoting.
As a journalist, I appreciate the rule of sourcing one's information, Ian. Plagiarism is a very real issue and intellectual property is a hot topic with me.
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