Military Press/Shoulder Press

[MightyAl]

Is there a difference between a military press and shoulder press?

In these demonstrations the military press is done in a standing position and the shoulder press is done in a sitting position but they look like the same movement to me

Barbell Military Press
Barbell Shoulder Press

All thought and comments are welcome.

[Alcoholiday]

same movement, one's sitting, one's standing.

I like push presses more than strict military presses if they're done properly. Push presses or jerks allow you to move the more weight, so when it comes time to do strict military presses, they feel a lot lighter, and you're more adapted to it.

I don't like seated a lot, because for me, it's hard to get into a good position, and feel like they put more pressure on my back. Seated machines (gasp!), are good for a change of pace, but don't rely on them.

[MightyAl]

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

same movement, one's sitting, one's standing.

I like push presses more than strict military presses if they're done properly. Push presses or jerks allow you to move the more weight, so when it comes time to do strict military presses, they feel a lot lighter, and you're more adapted to it.

I don't like seated a lot, because for me, it's hard to get into a good position, and feel like they put more pressure on my back. Seated machines (gasp!), are good for a change of pace, but don't rely on them.

Hi there,

That's what I thought - same movement. I'm with you, I prefer the standing and I don't use the machines either.

Thanks for your post!

[Lisa~]

I just felt the urge to post this very old joke:

The Military Press




There is very little consistency of terminology in the fitness industry. Depending on the author of a program, a military press might be called an overhead press, a shoulder press, or something else. I wouldn't even assume you'd be seated for a shoulder press unless the program specified a seated shoulder (or overhead) press.

I agree with Alco too. I much prefer push presses, barbell or dumbbell.

[dmw]

I'm glad to hear others like the push press. I can't stand the behind the neck presses and I perfer the push so I can use more weight.

[Lost Dog]

If your goal is to move more weight, do the push press. But, remember that the push is getting you past a week spot. If your goal is muscle growth, you should have regular presses in your workout sometimes, too.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

If your goal is to move more weight, do the push press. But, remember that the push is getting you past a week spot. If your goal is muscle growth, you should have regular presses in your workout sometimes, too.

i respectfully disagree.

Look at the guys who compete in strongman and their shoulders. They do basically all push presses or push jerks, and their shoulders are massive.

And i'm not talking about the juiced up guys either. Even AM strongmen have big shoulders.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

I just felt the urge to post this very old joke:

The Military Press




There is very little consistency of terminology in the fitness industry. Depending on the author of a program, a military press might be called an overhead press, a shoulder press, or something else. I wouldn't even assume you'd be seated for a shoulder press unless the program specified a seated shoulder (or overhead) press.

I agree with Alco too. I much prefer push presses, barbell or dumbbell.

haha!

Shoulder Press Question

[Lost Dog]

I didn't say they couldn't have big shoulders. Obviously they can. But, if someone wants to get bigger shoulders, that's not the fastest way to get there. Hypertrophy for strongmen is an effective side-effect.

With push presses, you're using leg drive to push right past the part where your shoulders and chest do most of the work.

Plus, hypertrophy will come on more effectively with higher reps than one would typically do with a push press.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

I didn't say they couldn't have big shoulders. Obviously they can. But, if someone wants to get bigger shoulders, that's not the fastest way to get there. Hypertrophy for strongmen is an effective side-effect.

With push presses, you're using leg drive to push right past the part where your shoulders and chest do most of the work.

Plus, hypertrophy will come on more effectively with higher reps than one would typically do with a push press.

yes, but with push presses, you are using more weight. So, IMO, more weight=more hypertrophy. Even though the shoulders aren't pushing past the hardest part, they are still taking a good load from the bar.

[Waittz]

I call them overhead presses. The other names just don't make sense to me. Im not in the military and I do bench presses, not chest presses.

Im also gunna agree with Alco on this one. Push presses will make your shoulders grow something nasty. The only reason why i do seated presses is because my gym has a stupid rule about have the bar over your head while standing. Ive been asked to leave before for not complying.

As far as hypertrophy, Im gunna cop out and take the "waterbury approach to this one". Ive really never experienced greater amounts of hypertrophy with high reps, Lower reps and a fast speed will cause more growth than moderate weight at higher reps. You wanna grow, work the largest muscle fibers and recruit the most fibers you can, in other words. lift heavy, lift fast.

[goergen1]

Look at the guys who compete in strongman and their shoulders. They do basically all push presses or push jerks, and their shoulders are massive.

That is simply not true. Though the pressing events in contest are done push press or power jerk style, in training all types of presses are done.

As you become more efficient at the push press less work is done by the shoulders at the bottom of the movement. It is a factor of increasing skill.

Both the push press and the standard overhead press are great, both exercises should be utilized in training, and both exercises have a different training effect.

I do not think that these 2 exercises should really be compared to one another since each brings about a unique training effect.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by goergen1

That is simply not true. Though the pressing events in contest are done push press or power jerk style, in training all types of presses are done.

As you become more efficient at the push press less work is done by the shoulders at the bottom of the movement. It is a factor of increasing skill.

Both the push press and the standard overhead press are great, both exercises should be utilized in training, and both exercises have a different training effect.

I do not think that these 2 exercises should really be compared to one another since each brings about a unique training effect.

it is true.

if you look at people who train strongman, 80-90% of their training is done with push presses and jerks. They train with what they will be using in competition. The variation usually comes with the implements they use (viking press, 10" log, 12" log, 8" log, axle, olympic bar, kegs, etc).

Jesse Marunde once said that JV told him that you can't call yourself a good presser until you press your bodyweight strict 10x. He asked this on his message board, and i don't think anyone could do it. They simply don't train their strict press.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

yes, but with push presses, you are using more weight. So, IMO, more weight=more hypertrophy. Even though the shoulders aren't pushing past the hardest part, they are still taking a good load from the bar.

Correct. You get more ass hypertrophy from push presses than from military presses.

Why not do push jerks, then. I can do a lot more with a jerk than a push press.

The greater weight only counts if it's being applied in the same percentages or greater toward that muscle group. I can db snatch 105lbs, but I can't press that much. I can't even push press that much one handed. That db just sort of sails past the shoulder, then you dip down to catch it at the top. I miss all that shoulder work.

If I can push press a db of 95lbs, I'm getting only a small percentage of shoulder work (let's call it 75%?). If I can strict press 85lbs, that's 100% toward the shoulder because their is no leg drive assistance.

My percentages are totally a guess, btw.

Also, the stronger your PC is, the less work your shoulders get. So, while it's possible to have a large difference between Mil Press and Push Press, the percentage applied to the shoulders is likely to go down, too.

[Lisa~]

But unlike the snatch, when you push press or push jerk for reps, you lower the load back to your shoulders under control. So you're getting that load on your shoulders during the eccentric portion of the exercise.

I'm not picking sides though. I think you can create hypertrophy with both methods and more than a debate about which one works best, it makes more sense to ask which one the trainee wants to use, which one does he enjoy the most.

[Lost Dog]

I lower it! Cuz I want my shoulder to be frickin' huge!

I know what you mean, though. But, I don't ever do those crossfit or kb style snatches unless it's for intervals or endurance. It's cheating, using that momentum to swing it back up? Dead stop or dead hang, each rep.

[Waittz]

i dunno, i just lift weights.....guess im doing something wrong.


I dont think mightyal signed up for this.