after reading a lot of chad waterbury's training principles and trying to implement them i am curious as to what other people think about his training programs/philosophies. one thing i can say is most normal people with kids/jobs and bills to pay would not have the time to train as frequently as he dictates. i feel that a lot of his rep schemes combined with the fact that he says muscle groups should be trained 2-4 times a week is a prescription for total physical/psychological exhaustion. some of what he says does make sense but i don't think you have to kill yourself in the process. i am 52 years old and don't want to live at the gym. if anyone has any suggestions for a common sense training plan for a guy that just wants to put on a little muscle and stay conditioned please let me know.
so lifting full body 3 days a week is more time consuming than, say a body part split where you have to lift 5 times a week? That really makes no sense.
what 50 rep movements 2-4 times a week? I've never seen him recommend 50 reps.. I've seen him recommend things like 2x20 though, which is totally OK. Can you provide a link to what makes you doubt him?
50 reps is not "written in stone"......it's one end of a range and how many sets and reps you do is partly dependent on your goals.
FYI, I'm 52, only 165 lbs and while it is not easy, doing sessions where your reps add up to 50 per exercise is very doable. I basically do 6 different exercises (mainly compound) and am finished in 60-75 minutes for 3 days per week.
Granted it is not necessarily doable for a pure beginner.
i am 52 years old and don't want to live at the gym
Spending 3 to 4 hours a week exercising is not "living in the gym".
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I've done four different Waterbury programs and almost never take more than 45 minutes in the gym. There were a few exceptions on low-rep, near-max lifting days.
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that's not what i said. what i'm talking about is 50 rep movements 2-4 times a week. can you handle that.? if so i admire you.?
Using those 50 reps (as a maximum) that's 5 sets of 10.
Let's use 90 second rest periods.
That's 360 seconds of rest, or six minutes; and add in four minutes for your time working. That's 10 minutes for a 5x10.
Do a 5x10 for your lower body, a 5x10 upper body push, and a 5x10 upper body pull; that's 30 minutes, plus about 5 to switch exercises. Throw in 5 minutes for an ab exercise and 10 minutes of a warmup/cooldown and we've got ourselves a total of 50 minutes. Do that three times a week, and that's two and a half hours.
That's not living at the gym. That's a nap.
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I'm currently doing the workouts in Chad's new book, Huge in a Hurry, which comes out this fall. My actual lifting time rarely exceeds 30 minutes, three times a week. I might add another 15 minutes for warm-ups and mobility work, but I can't recall the last time I spent more than 45 minutes training.
that's not what i said. what i'm talking about is 50 rep movements 2-4 times a week. can you handle that.? if so i admire you.?
I'm about to start FLI in NROL and it starts with almost that much for one day, 3x15 = 45. If I workout 3x/wk, well, that means squats or deadlifts is going to be 90/wk. Consider all exercises the follow squats or deadlifts to be the same.
It's brutal, but doable. And I have yet to hear people talk about the brutalness os a Waterbury workout.
if you are able to do that in 60-75 minutes then i must be doing something wrong. i can't get out of the gym in less than 2-2.5 hours. i train for hypertrophy/strength using loads in the 80-85% range. i use waterbury's rep/set schemes like 8/3, 10/3,12/3 and so on. obviously if somebody is doing 50 reps you're not using an 80% load ( normally). i would be interested to know what your workout routine consists of. maybe i can learn something.
Alwyn's FLI takes me 1.5 hours. I'd like to cut it down, but I kind of need to pick my ass up off the floor between supersets.
I'm not sure if I'm using 80% or not. Truthfully, I don't really give a shit. I use what load brings me to the brink of form failure and try to be mindful of form and tempo as guidelines to whether I'm passing or failing an exercise.
if you are able to do that in 60-75 minutes then i must be doing something wrong. i can't get out of the gym in less than 2-2.5 hours. i train for hypertrophy/strength using loads in the 80-85% range. i use waterbury's rep/set schemes like 8/3, 10/3,12/3 and so on. obviously if somebody is doing 50 reps you're not using an 80% load ( normally). i would be interested to know what your workout routine consists of. maybe i can learn something.
Maybe you're doing something wrong. Instead of making your own routine from the set/rep bible, follow some of his programs. Some of the more advanced ones can take a long time, but most don't if you follow the rest times.
Also, most programs that have 6-10x3 are only long on one day per week.
What Lost Dog said. If you just use Waterbury's set/rep schemes but make everything else up, it's not a Waterbury program. So if it takes you two hours it's not his fault.
Chad has very precise rest periods for each set, and they're usually short. Get a $5 stopwatch and stick to the rest periods and most of his workouts can be done in 45 minutes or less.
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if you are able to do that in 60-75 minutes then i must be doing something wrong. i can't get out of the gym in less than 2-2.5 hours. i train for hypertrophy/strength using loads in the 80-85% range. i use waterbury's rep/set schemes like 8/3, 10/3,12/3 and so on. obviously if somebody is doing 50 reps you're not using an 80% load ( normally). i would be interested to know what your workout routine consists of. maybe i can learn something.
I am currently doing Waterbury's Total Body Training program. And my 60-75 minutes includes warmup. This is basically 6 exercises per session.... my last session was DB Incline Bench, Dips, Bodyweight Pullups, Squats, Standing Shoulder Press, and Lateral Raises. These were 3 sets of 15 reps (although I will admit it took me more than 3 sets to acheive 45 pullups ). And for 3 sets of 15, my load was about 70-75% of 1RM.
For you to take 2-2.5 hours I could only guess that you are doing upwards to a dozen exercises per session, and some cardio?
Also, most of his workouts use about 6 exercises per day. You don't have to do that many, but that's what the typical trainee wants. For just strength, you could do a lot less. For hypertrophy, you could probably get 95% of the effect with 4 exercises, 3 times per week. At the very least, you could do the 8x3 days with only four exercises, supersetted for efficiency.
I'm currently doing the workouts in Chad's new book, Huge in a Hurry, which comes out this fall. My actual lifting time rarely exceeds 30 minutes, three times a week. I might add another 15 minutes for warm-ups and mobility work, but I can't recall the last time I spent more than 45 minutes training.
when will cw allow you to throw out some teasers about the new book?
if you are able to do that in 60-75 minutes then i must be doing something wrong. i can't get out of the gym in less than 2-2.5 hours. i train for hypertrophy/strength using loads in the 80-85% range. i use waterbury's rep/set schemes like 8/3, 10/3,12/3 and so on. obviously if somebody is doing 50 reps you're not using an 80% load ( normally). i would be interested to know what your workout routine consists of. maybe i can learn something.
gn, give us an example of a workout you are doing...in addition, I wouldn't suggest (and neither does chad) performing all workouts during the week at that rep range....
for example, in "See Chad Train" at t-nation.com, he discusses a typical week for him.....e.g.
if seeking hypertrophy/maximal strength, 24 reps per movement pattern, 3xper week.....
8x3
4x6
3x9
I am simplifying things, because his new prescription is to lift each set until your speed slows noticeably from the first rep of the set....therefore, 4x6 would really look more like 1x7, 1x6, 2x5.....in addition, he suggest, if time permits:
vertical push/horizontal pull
vertical pull/horizontal push
quad dom/him dom
If you superset each of the above, a set may take 20-30 sec max, then 60 sec rest, then 20-30 sec set of the paired exercise....each pairing should take 12 minutes, therefore 36 minutes to complete three pairings. Add in 5 minute warm-up, 5 minute stretch at the end, and maybe a two minute breather between each set of new exercises, and you are looking at maybe 50 mins tops...now, certainly as your number of reps increases with the same weight, and you progress toward 35 total rep for each exercise, it can reach possibly an hour....
so I would suggest stop complaining, cut your rest periods, pair exercises, and get moving...otherwise, take up stamp collecting...
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). And for 3 sets of 15, my load was about 70-75% of 1RM.
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