What do you guys think of this? It looks so...well, too good to be true for it's introductory price of $47 . However, I'm a bit reluctant on purchasing it because I don't know if it works as well on athletes as it does on normal folks. For example, myself...I'm trying to increase my vertical jump as well as build up my skinny self. So I'm using Kelly Bagett's vertical jump bible. Can I work bothe of these in? Don't matter, for that price, I'll purchase it right away . The Hottest Muscle Building Program Ever enter your first name and email and check out the program.
I wouldn't really call it blowing smoke.It's John Berardi, Pavel, Charles Staley, Paul Chek etc etc sitting down and talking about specific topics with me. If you think it's blowing smoke, that's fine. I'm not going to come here and make a plea for anyone to purchase it. What I will say is that it's a very no b.s., not the usual questions, asked to the top people in this industry.
__________________
The reason you don't have big arms is because you're weaker than a baby's fart, not because you don't do enough arm curls. -- Tony Gentilcore, via thefitcast.com
[Your] biceps [comprise] just 3 percent of the amount of muscle mass in your entire body. Remember that number: It's a good way to keep a perspective on how much you train your biceps compared with your other muscle groups. -- from menshealth.com
I wouldn't really call it blowing smoke.It's John Berardi, Pavel, Charles Staley, Paul Chek etc etc sitting down and talking about specific topics with me. If you think it's blowing smoke, that's fine. I'm not going to come here and make a plea for anyone to purchase it. What I will say is that it's a very no b.s., not the usual questions, asked to the top people in this industry.
I just read your free report and it was just what I was looking for! Before, I was puny and small. NOW, everything has changed! I gained about 15 lbs of muscle just by reading it. That tip about using rest pause is awesome, man! "they" were hiding all that knowledge from me.
Guys, the choice is easy. Stay small and puny, or pay ONLY $47 and become huge, muscular, and dense(in more than one way). And if I can't convince you, the sales copy will for sure. I mean, they're testimonials and stuff! How can it not be true!?!!?
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
It's not BS? Then why the "hottest/greatest/best/latest," nonsense?
I don't know Jimmy Smith, but I have heard of 90% of the contributers to his product and have spent waaayyy more than $47 on their materials and been pleased with my purchases. The best product in the world won't go anywhere without good marketing. Good marketing is what moves units. The type of "special report" "latest, greatest secrets" marketing works. You can't help people get fit if they don't buy your product.
It looks way better than "The 12 Second Sequence".
I don't know Jimmy Smith, but I have heard of 90% of the contributers to his product and have spent waaayyy more than $47 on their materials and been pleased with my purchases. The best product in the world won't go anywhere without good marketing. Good marketing is what moves units. The type of "special report" "latest, greatest secrets" marketing works. You can't help people get fit if they don't buy your product.
Here's where I don't buy that...
The people who lift weights and know, know the form, know the field, know the experts, at least by name and reputation, will know the value of the people behind it and what they bring to the table. They are the ones that are serious and motivated, so saying it's the "latest, greatest, best" is just empty advertising.
Those that don't know, who lift as a matter of killing time, trying to look cool and hook up with the opposite sex, whatever, aren't really motivated to know the inner details and usually don't stick with anything for any positive length of time. They have workout ADD. Typically, your housewives, office douchebag, etc. It won't really matter for them, because they're not likely to stick with it. Often the vernacular loses them because it's an industry in which they were not educated. So, then, the "latest, greatest, best" becomes a big pimp tool for moving the product to people who don't matter except in terms of spending power.
Might as well put a picture of Jessica Biel's bodacious booty on the cover and use that to sell it. It'll move alot faster and the authors won't look like they're trying to pull a fast one.
I don't know Jimmy Smith, but I have heard of 90% of the contributers to his product and have spent waaayyy more than $47 on their materials and been pleased with my purchases.
If you want to buy it, more power to you. But, you're probably paying for "secrets" that are available for free, or are worthless minutia. There's only so many ways that you can say "lift heavy/hard, bust ass, eat less/more acc to your goals, and get rest" before it gets redundant.
I'm not saying that all resources are garbage--I have spent money on a few classics(think starting strength) that are excellent. But most of these products--especially those with obnoxious sales pages filled with awful grammar, endless circle-jerk testimonials, and lots of ridiculous claims.
Quote:
It looks way better than "The 12 Second Sequence".
This doesn't mean that it's good.
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
It's marketing. It's about getting the most amount of people to buy the product. Get over it. If you don't want to buy the product and read what the authors have to say, fine. But to ridicule and trash a product you have no familiarity with is just childish. Grow up.
__________________
"Rust on a nail builds tetanus. Rust on a barbell builds character, strength, and attitude." -EC
"Don't spend your life wishing. Spend it doing." -FishrCutB8
"You're a mutant, like a snake with two heads or a cat shy one nipple. Be thankful that your mutation is helpful." - LD
It's marketing. It's about getting the most amount of people to buy the product. Get over it. If you don't want to buy the product and read what the authors have to say, fine. But to ridicule and trash a product you have no familiarity with is just childish. Grow up.
Why not? We're always trashing products advertised on TV w/o ever trying them first.
I just refuse to make allowance for anyone. I don't care if his name is John Berardi, Ron Popeil or John Basedow.
It's marketing. It's about getting the most amount of people to buy the product. Get over it. If you don't want to buy the product and read what the authors have to say, fine. But to ridicule and trash a product you have no familiarity with is just childish. Grow up.
You can only see so many of these latest and greatest products come along before it kills you that people fall for the somewhat misreprsentative advertising and pay $50 a pop.
I'm all for a free market, but at the same time, let the buyer beware.
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
I think the serious types will buy in spite of the marketing because they like the authors...the type you refer to will buy because of the marketing, but is that bad? So what if they have "workout ADD" and won't scratch the surface of the info. Workout ADD is as good a way to spend time/$$ (if not better) as a big screen TV, expensive car, or any other depreciating consumer junk people throw their money away on.
If the product is good (the creator can be proud of it), then why not sell as many as possible? I see where you are coming from though...that "Jay Abraham" (marketing guru who developed this style as far as I know) marketing gets old after awhile...but it works.
I'd rather put food on my table with what works than avoid offending a minority number of users (and perhaps protect my own BS radar) and starve, but at least I avoided the buzz-word laden special reports. This assumes the product is very good of course.
If the product is good, then use whatever marketing works provided it is not illegal or dishonest. Calling something "the greatest" is simply opinion and entirely acceptable. I love marketing...it drives our economy which is what makes us the best place in the world to live in. Nearly everyones' paycheck is somehow linked to some companies aggressive (distasteful?) marketing strategies to someone.
I buy a lot of self-defense products and attend courses. This conversation always comes up in those circles as well. The funny thing is it only comes up with the serious users...the bulk of the buying public just don't care. If the product is good, the only way they can afford to bring it to market is by marketing it to sell. Otherwise they would go out of business and you wouldn't get the info.
Yes, you can tone it down...but think of every fitness expert you know who doesn't market this way, but has great material. How well known are they? How many people do they reach?
If you want to trash a product on TV that you feel is ridiculous (12 Second Secret, 8 minute abs and the like come to mind as unpopular products on this board), go ahead. If you feel like trashing a product with names like Berardi, Tsatsouline, Chek, Staley, Harris, Ferruggia, and Mohr, I will concede that you have the right to do so as well.
With that said, I feel there's a big difference between trashing a gimmicky product you'll find on TV and trashing a compilation of writings by well-qualified and well-respected experts in the field. If you don't distinguish between the two, that's your view.
As for me, the authors with a track record have more credibility that some promoter on TV pimping a product that he or she hasn't even created.
Jimmy Smith compiled and put out this project. You may hate the format he used for his advertising, but the industry has done studies (as discussed in earlier threads) and that's the format that works the best. It's what sells. If you can get past the typical rah-rah fluff and get down to the basic information presented, you'll find quality stuff to read about that establishes the product as a product worthy of your consideration for purchase. Stuff like his "Strict Selection Criteria." Apply it to all the authors presented and you'll see it lines up. Moving on to the reports, you can read about what each one includes. If you like what you see, think about buying it. If you don't, close the window and go on with your day.
__________________
"Rust on a nail builds tetanus. Rust on a barbell builds character, strength, and attitude." -EC
"Don't spend your life wishing. Spend it doing." -FishrCutB8
"You're a mutant, like a snake with two heads or a cat shy one nipple. Be thankful that your mutation is helpful." - LD
I'm all for a free market, but at the same time, let the buyer beware.
Sure, but beware of what in this case? There looks like a ton of info from a lot of accomplished sources there for only $50. Yes, a lot of this info can be had for free...but how much research time would that take? I'd rather spend the $50. Now, my fitness education is a bit beyond me personally buying this, though I know I would still learn something useful. Also, my goal never has been gaining muscle.
If you read this and think it is a ripoff...then it isn't marketed to you. You already have this info in some way, shape or form. For less than the cost of one session with a trainer at a box gym...I think a product like this represents a very good value.
You can only see so many of these latest and greatest products come along before it kills you that people fall for the somewhat misreprsentative advertising and pay $50 a pop.
I'm all for a free market, but at the same time, let the buyer beware.
How often do you see products with all the names attached to it that this product has?
As for "let the buy beware" and misrepresentative advertising, the page includes the list of all the authors and the general ideas their reports discuss. Doesn't research on the part of the consumer play a role in a free market? Take the authors, look um up, you can find all their background info. You like what you see, go for it. If not, don't buy. It's that simple.
__________________
"Rust on a nail builds tetanus. Rust on a barbell builds character, strength, and attitude." -EC
"Don't spend your life wishing. Spend it doing." -FishrCutB8
"You're a mutant, like a snake with two heads or a cat shy one nipple. Be thankful that your mutation is helpful." - LD
As for me, the authors with a track record have more credibility that some promoter on TV pimping a product that he or she hasn't even created.
I know I'm going to get jumped on by everyone for this, but didn't Smith write the article that led to this awesome thread?
At least for me, that article/discussion afterwards established that everything that he says shouldn't be clung to as dogmatic truth--that he wasn't the most credible source in th world.
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
I started learning about efficient, effective training from two of those authors buying products like this with the same advertising. That knowledge allowed me to get into excellent shape (specifically for high risk security/combat) in a short period of time and maintain, even improve my conditioning while in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
If it weren't for products like this, I would have been lost in the counter-productive (for me), time consuming, equipment intensive world of "Mens Health" magazine and bodybuilding main-stream methods. I didn't have time to get a degree in the field or do any research and experimentation on myself. Somebody already invented the wheel of how to get fit for tactical applications...I gladly paid for that knowledge.
If this product saves someone a couple years of going nowhere in the gym...how much is that worth?
How often do you see products with all the names attached to it that this product has?
As for "let the buy beware" and misrepresentative advertising, the page includes the list of all the authors and the general ideas their reports discuss. Doesn't research on the part of the consumer play a role in a free market? Take the authors, look um up, you can find all their background info. You like what you see, go for it. If not, don't buy. It's that simple.
Kevin, let me clarify what I believe. I'm sure that the authors generally know their stuff. However, I believe that the information and the "secrets" being disseminated in the "Muscle Bible" are minutia/irrelevant and/or can be found for FREE without paying $50. For example, one of the muscle-building techniques included in the "free report" was "rest-pausing", a well known technique that one could learn about from many sources--the internet, a book checked out from the library, or by even talking to the big guy at the gym.
I believe the buyer should be beware that they could get all the essential information and more for free, without paying for all these "special reports" and the like.
Take two genetic twins. Spend $50 for one of the on the "muscle bible". Show the other one the article bank from T-nation(yes, t-nation. They are a bit "off", but still a sold source of information). Do you think there is going to be any difference between the two after 5 years of training?
Quote:
misrepresentative advertising
You would agree with me that this is an example of the above:
Quote:
You need to buy now or ELSE you'll run the risk of staying the exact same size you are now or get even smaller, weaker, fatter or less attractive.
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
I know I'm going to get jumped on by everyone for this, but didn't Smith write the article that led to this awesome thread?
At least for me, that article/discussion afterwards established that everything that he says shouldn't be clung to as dogmatic truth--that he wasn't the most credible source in th world.
And how many of the reports are actually written by Smith?
Report 1: Berardi
Report 2: Abel
Report 3: Tsatsouline
Report 4: Chek
Report 5: Staley
Report 6: Harris
Report 7: Ferruggia
Report 8: Roberts
Report 9: Mohr
Report 10: Luoma
Report 11: Catanzaro
Report 12: Waterbury
__________________
"Rust on a nail builds tetanus. Rust on a barbell builds character, strength, and attitude." -EC
"Don't spend your life wishing. Spend it doing." -FishrCutB8
"You're a mutant, like a snake with two heads or a cat shy one nipple. Be thankful that your mutation is helpful." - LD
I know I'm going to get jumped on by everyone for this, but didn't Smith write the article that led to this awesome thread?
At least for me, that article/discussion afterwards established that everything that he says shouldn't be clung to as dogmatic truth--that he wasn't the most credible source in th world.
I'm gonna have to jump on you about this.
There is a distinction between developing an idea and recognizing the merits of one. Many people can recognize a good idea, but they would be hard pressed to come up with one that could stand up against criticism.
It's like multiple choice vs. essay on a test.
Thus, I don't think it's condusive to use Jimmy's falacious article to trump the work of others.
Quote:
Jeez. It's like you guys lie in wait until you see a target.
I'm a leo and a cynic. A cynical leo. I don't know what evyone else's excuse is.
However, I'll walk away rather than escalate and have this thread dominate what is a general training sub-forum, though, this should have been moved to the business sub-forum as soon as Jimmy posted with a link to his product.
Pretty please, can we not have this debate over and over again.
__________________
*****************************
Walk on
With hope in your heart
And You'll Never Walk Alone
*****************************
There's no free lunch, especially when it's served with special sauce (lostdog)
***************************** My Log - PC Plod
And how many of the reports are actually written by Smith?
Report 1: Berardi
Report 2: Abel
Report 3: Tsatsouline
Report 4: Chek
Report 5: Staley
Report 6: Harris
Report 7: Ferruggia
Report 8: Roberts
Report 9: Mohr
Report 10: Luoma
Report 11: Catanzaro
Report 12: Waterbury
O, OK. I thought you were referring to him, not the others. My bad.
Even so, I still stand by my main point that you're overpaying for free/insignificant information, no matter how credible the authors may or may not be.
Quote:
I'm gonna have to jump on you about this.
There is a distinction between developing an idea and recognizing the merits of one. Many people can recognize a good idea, but they would be hard pressed to come up with one that could stand up against criticism.
It's like multiple choice vs. essay on a test.
Thus, I don't think it's condusive to use Jimmy's falacious article to trump the work of others.
I would see it differently. In the AF article, he mistakenly recognized adrenal fatigue as a real disease and its proponents as credible sources. The same could be said for these reports.
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
My god. I thought all this bullshit was over. I actually didn't realise that all this shit was actually started by regular people from the forum. I thought all the hating and trash talking was by randoms.
Its no wonder everyone hates internet forums.
If you need a lesson in how to act like a real adult then ask Keven T. You supposed adults are getting shown up by a 17 year old.
The Muscle Bible
. However, I'm a bit reluctant on purchasing it because I don't know if it works as well on athletes as it does on normal folks. For example, myself...I'm trying to increase my vertical jump as well as build up my skinny self. So I'm using Kelly Bagett's vertical jump bible. Can I work bothe of these in? Don't matter, for that price, I'll purchase it right away 
. 
Linear Mode
