problems with the pecs

[shamguy4]

Hi I have not posted in a while.

Well after doping the scrawny to brawny program and gaining 20 pounds i was lead to rippetoes startiong strength which is what im doing now and its going great
except...
MY PECS!
yes, I keep posting about my pecs and bench pressing! (if you research my posts youll see me talking about my pecs over and over.... I dont shut up....)
I never feel like bench pressing is helping.
When I felt my arms (not the muscle but my actual arms -the bones) hurt I decided maybe I should lower the weight. and i did.
But somehow i still feel nothing in my pecs, and sometime I get a straijn in my neck.
Im not lifting my neck when im pressing, yet somehow i get a strain in it and i hope thats not dangerous...
Its fustrating to work out so hard and find everything working and feeling the 'pump' in everything but the pecs....

once in a while i wake up the next day amazed at how my pecs feel sore even though I thought I felt nothing.

maybe my pecs are stronger than my triceps but still... i should feel something

well here i am... waiting for the day I walk away from the bench press feeling that 'pump' of satisfation in my pecs....

[Waittz]

stop benching.

honestly, its rare for a person to hit their chest efficiently from flat bb bench. You really have to know HOW to bench with your pecs and not your shoulders. Try incline DBs for a bit, buy a cheap pair of push up stands and go deeeeeep. Dips with a wide grip are nice too.

now if you still wanna master the flat bb bench, well here are some of my tips. It took me a long time to learn to bench correctly, but once you can learn to do it right....well youll build a bullet proof chest.

First off, you are not moving the bar for point A to point B, completely forget that notion. You are raising the bar off your chest by squeezing your pecs together tightly which will in turn extend your elbows because of the fact that the bar will not allow your hands to close together.

widen your grip a bit. grab the bar shoulder width, now move your hands apart by 1 and a half ....er...."handwidths".

one you unrack the bar, do not lower the bar to your chest.......pull it down with your lats......get your lowerback pressed against the bench and squeeze your buttcheeks together(no joke), and stop as close as you can to your skin, without touching it.

now hastily raise the bar off your chest by explosively squeezing your pecs and with your hands on the bar, try to pull them close to eachother. obviously do not move them from the placement but this will help you contract your pecs.

do not lock out, meaning do not fully extend your arms, stop just before lockout and them pull it back down to your chest. do not pause at the top. by not touching your chest and not locking out at the top, you are forcing constant tension on your pecs. the second you lock elbows, or touch your chest, you lose that tension.

now work fast, lower the bar(pull) in a controlled fashion, that blast that baby up fast, rinse repeat.

try that out, but first, decrease your load by at least 20% and realy focus on driving the bar up with your pecs and squeezing.

hope that helps.

[Frank.S]

You see very few people with bad chests repping out 3 plates on the bench. It just takes time.

Progressing how much weight i use has worked for me. Stick to a few main things, flat bench, and incline bench (both with bbs and dbs) and progress.

Steves way of benching is more BB style which may induce more size. But, on the other side of things, I bench with an arch in my back, touch the bar low, and spread the bar apart (use more triceps) and ive had no problem with chest development.

[rem1956]

Steve...excellant advice....thanks....I'm going to try it next time I lift. I copied it and have in my bag.

[shamguy4]

Thanks for the answers.
And thanks steve!
I printed out your little instructions and i cant wait to give it a go.

so i squeeze my pecs together by pulling my hands toward each other (although they dont really move) ?
where do my elbows go? i once tried to tuck them in but found my elbows hurting, i must have been doing something wrong...

well cant wait to go to the gym and give it a try!
Is there any other tips i should know about?

also I gained 3 pounds last week which was good for me. but then I got food poisining, which sucks. I was vomiting the whole weekend and I lost the weight I had gained.

people said it would come right back, but it didnt and although i finally started eating normally again by tuesday I havent really gained it back yet... I hope it comes back by next week...

im eating like a pig... and its healthy stuff... i went to a nutritionist....

i also drink whey protein right before i work out
maybe i should take it after i work out instead?
I dont eat anything after i work out because i work out now right before i go to sleep.

last week when I gained the 3 pounds I was on vacation from college and I was able to workout in middle of the day where i was able to eat afterward.

this is my workout program:
5x5 of everything:
A
squats
bench press
deadlifts

B
squats
power cleans
military press

[AFI82]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

I dont eat anything after i work out because i work out now right before i go to sleep.

This kind of seems like a big issue. Doesn't really matter if you eat before you go to bed. If anything, you should be wanting to eat before you go to bed to help put some weight on. Beyond that, you should definitely be eating something after you lift.

[Waittz]

Do not skip a postworkout shake....ever. Just mix some whey protein with some juice, the whey is digestion and absorbed quickly and the carbs will not only help with recovery but stimulate the secretion of serotonin which will actually help you sleep.

And frank, I dont beleive in a difference between BBing and PLing form, to me there is such a thing as "work set form" and "max lift form". Ive put up 310 when i weighed 175-80ish, all the while never training or maxing with an arched back. And to me it doesnt sound like he wants to bench 300+ lbs right now, just get a nice lil pump, and there aint nothing wrong with that. Plus constant tension, explosive concentric and squeezing to develop mind muscle connection will only help strengthen his pecs, not just his bench. Unless he plans on entering a PLing meet, how much he(or anyone else for the matter) can bench is irrelevant and in most cases counter productive.

Adding weight to a lift you are not doing correctly only makes the problem worse. Its like adding a second floor when there are cracks in your foundation.

The reason I feel that 99% of the population does not bench correctly is because of their ego. All they wanna do add more to the bar, if you think im wrong, remember the last time you were at the gym and that goof ball asked for a spot. You had to lift the bar off his chest the last 1 or two reps, and the next set, that clown ads more weight to the bar.

to the OP, i do not tuck my elbows unless I am benching with a close grip, I usually flare them, leaving my upper arms perpendicular to my torso. And by squeezing your hands together, I am merely trying to get you to not only flex your pecs, but squeeze them together, like a flat girl posing for her myspace picture. It will just strengthen the contraction. Just like learning to perform pull ups with your lats(I can give an entire separate post about that if you like) instead of your arms, you need to teach your body to bench with the prime mover, the chest. The best way to do that, is to develop the connection your brain has with your muscles.

[Waittz]

also why do you have to settle on before or after? Just make a big ole shake and sip it before, during and after your workout. I usually mix about 12-16 ounces of juice and another 6 or so of water, then like 2 scoops and just nurse it the entire session.

The problem I have with the "30 minute window" is well, If my workout takes an hour long(which it rarely should) and Im hitting fullbody, hell, my chest is getting the nutrients in that 30 min window, but I squatted a damned near hour and a half ago!

gl man, if you need anything else, feel free.

[Blindside361]

Originally Posted by TheSteve

Do not skip a postworkout shake....ever. Just mix some whey protein with some juice, the whey is digestion and absorbed quickly and the carbs will not only help with recovery but stimulate the secretion of serotonin which will actually help you sleep.

And frank, I dont beleive in a difference between BBing and PLing form, to me there is such a thing as "work set form" and "max lift form". Ive put up 310 when i weighed 175-80ish, all the while never training or maxing with an arched back. And to me it doesnt sound like he wants to bench 300+ lbs right now, just get a nice lil pump, and there aint nothing wrong with that. Plus constant tension, explosive concentric and squeezing to develop mind muscle connection will only help strengthen his pecs, not just his bench. Unless he plans on entering a PLing meet, how much he(or anyone else for the matter) can bench is irrelevant and in most cases counter productive.

Adding weight to a lift you are not doing correctly only makes the problem worse. Its like adding a second floor when there are cracks in your foundation.

The reason I feel that 99% of the population does not bench correctly is because of their ego. All they wanna do add more to the bar, if you think im wrong, remember the last time you were at the gym and that goof ball asked for a spot. You had to lift the bar off his chest the last 1 or two reps, and the next set, that clown ads more weight to the bar.

to the OP, i do not tuck my elbows unless I am benching with a close grip, I usually flare them, leaving my upper arms perpendicular to my torso. And by squeezing your hands together, I am merely trying to get you to not only flex your pecs, but squeeze them together, like a flat girl posing for her myspace picture. It will just strengthen the contraction. Just like learning to perform pull ups with your lats(I can give an entire separate post about that if you like) instead of your arms, you need to teach your body to bench with the prime mover, the chest. The best way to do that, is to develop the connection your brain has with your muscles.

Could you post your thoughts on pull ups and lats? I seem to have a hard time "feeling it" in my lats when I do them.

[Waittz]

okie doke, I got some free time. This can be applied to pull downs as well, if you cannot perform regular pull ups.

i guess i need to put this out here now....

:ISCLAMER::
I am not a personal trainer, I am not saying that if you do not perform these exercises my way you are performing them incorrect.

Pull up time.
First rule is the same as in the bench, if you are doing these pull ups weighted or on a lat pull down machine, drop the weight by at least 20%.

As far as grip, well I am talking about just regular pull ups, not chins, thats a whole other ball game. same with wide grips and behind the backs. I tend to grab the bar with the same grip as bench( 1 1/2 "handwidths" wider than shoulder width). I also tend to use a hook grip(Hook Grip) with weighted pulls, thumb less unweighted, its just preference. Just don't use straps. If you need to use straps to handle the weight you pull vertically, you either have weak forearms and should correct that before back strength, or you are using too much weight. Either way wont do. If you decide to use chalk, be careful you don't use too much or you will get an eye full when you grab the bar(horrible story for another time)

Now the pull.
DO NOT PULL WITH YOUR HANDS! Squeeze the bar as tight as you can though, even excessively. Now pull with your ELBOWS. What does that mean? Sit down or stand, now raise your hands over your head. Move your hands down by pinching your elbows down towards your obliques(side of your stomach). Your upper body should be a perfect plane the entire time, meaning if someone was standing to the side of you, they would not see your arms moving forward or backward in relation to your torso. While doing this, you should imagine a peanut is resting in the middle of your upper back and you are going to crack it with your soon to be hyuuuge traps and upper back musculature. Also known as Scapula Retraction.(Scapular Retraction - - Get Fit Exercise Library - American Council on Exercise(ACE))

If you do not feel that in your lats, try it a few times till you do. I want you to close you eyes and imagine you are looking at your back and really squeeze, remember its pulling with the elbows not your hands.

Now hop on the bar and try the same thing. Squeeze tight with your hands and DO NOT PULL YOUR SELF UP(misleading exercise name huh), rather repeat the exercise you just tried. Just focus on pinching your elbows towards your obliques, the closer you elbows get, the higher you body goes. Get up as high as you can, preferably your nose or chin should be at or over the bar, and give it a good squeeze. Now just like I told you to "row" the bar down on the bench, I want you to "push" yourself back down to the ground, but DO NOT go all the way down to the point your elbows lock. Same concept of constant tension.

When doing this, just like the imaginary pull ups, try to keep your body in a strait plane. Plane geometrically speaking, not aeronautically, but you already knew that didn't you.

ok, hope that helps.

[Frank.S]

ill reply more later, im in a rush right now.

steve, i do like your ideas. But what came to mind when i have read this guys posts is that he is a fairly new lifter and probally doesnt need too really 'specialize' anything or use and special techniques.

[Waittz]

This isnt specializing anything, its just called good form. If you think lifting is all about moving the object from point A to point B, unless you are talking about PLing, you are DEAD wrong. It is about contracting the muscle and as a result of that contraction/s the object moves from point A to point B.

The fact that I felt the same notion, about him being a new lifter made me feel obligated to take the time to explain how to lift the BASICS properly. I'm not trying to get into an argument of ideals with anyone, I am just giving him my perspective.

[Blindside361]

Originally Posted by TheSteve

okie doke, I got some free time. This can be applied to pull downs as well, if you cannot perform regular pull ups.

i guess i need to put this out here now....

:ISCLAMER::
I am not a personal trainer, I am not saying that if you do not perform these exercises my way you are performing them incorrect.

Pull up time.
First rule is the same as in the bench, if you are doing these pull ups weighted or on a lat pull down machine, drop the weight by at least 20%.

As far as grip, well I am talking about just regular pull ups, not chins, thats a whole other ball game. same with wide grips and behind the backs. I tend to grab the bar with the same grip as bench( 1 1/2 "handwidths" wider than shoulder width). I also tend to use a hook grip(Hook Grip) with weighted pulls, thumb less unweighted, its just preference. Just don't use straps. If you need to use straps to handle the weight you pull vertically, you either have weak forearms and should correct that before back strength, or you are using too much weight. Either way wont do. If you decide to use chalk, be careful you don't use too much or you will get an eye full when you grab the bar(horrible story for another time)

Now the pull.
DO NOT PULL WITH YOUR HANDS! Squeeze the bar as tight as you can though, even excessively. Now pull with your ELBOWS. What does that mean? Sit down or stand, now raise your hands over your head. Move your hands down by pinching your elbows down towards your obliques(side of your stomach). Your upper body should be a perfect plane the entire time, meaning if someone was standing to the side of you, they would not see your arms moving forward or backward in relation to your torso. While doing this, you should imagine a peanut is resting in the middle of your upper back and you are going to crack it with your soon to be hyuuuge traps and upper back musculature. Also known as Scapula Retraction.(Scapular Retraction - - Get Fit Exercise Library - American Council on Exercise(ACE))

If you do not feel that in your lats, try it a few times till you do. I want you to close you eyes and imagine you are looking at your back and really squeeze, remember its pulling with the elbows not your hands.

Now hop on the bar and try the same thing. Squeeze tight with your hands and DO NOT PULL YOUR SELF UP(misleading exercise name huh), rather repeat the exercise you just tried. Just focus on pinching your elbows towards your obliques, the closer you elbows get, the higher you body goes. Get up as high as you can, preferably your nose or chin should be at or over the bar, and give it a good squeeze. Now just like I told you to "row" the bar down on the bench, I want you to "push" yourself back down to the ground, but DO NOT go all the way down to the point your elbows lock. Same concept of constant tension.

When doing this, just like the imaginary pull ups, try to keep your body in a strait plane. Plane geometrically speaking, not aeronautically, but you already knew that didn't you.

ok, hope that helps.

Thanks for the tips, I'll try them out.

[shamguy4]

Originally Posted by TheSteve
Do not skip a postworkout shake....ever. Just mix some whey protein with some juice, the whey is digestion and absorbed quickly and the carbs will not only help with recovery but stimulate the secretion of serotonin which will actually help you sleep.

also why do you have to settle on before or after? Just make a big ole shake and sip it before, during and after your workout. I usually mix about 12-16 ounces of juice and another 6 or so of water, then like 2 scoops and just nurse it the entire session.

The problem I have with the "30 minute window" is well, If my workout takes an hour long(which it rarely should) and Im hitting fullbody, hell, my chest is getting the nutrients in that 30 min window, but I squatted a damned near hour and a half ago!

gl man, if you need anything else, feel free.

Thanks a lot for your replies!
Sorry it took so long to reply back! im busy with college and stuff...
I have a few questions:

1)so what should I eat after I work out? a whole meal? a fruit? how much? cause after i work out I just want to shower and hit my bed...

And mixing my chocolate flavored protein with gatorade was like taking a drink from hell.... I did it one time cause i wanted the carbs and the protein.
now i usually take a scoop of protein and milk before the workout and then during the workout i sip powerade or some sports drink...


So what should i do? what do you reccomend?

and about me being a beginner: i have been working out since last summer, but I guess that means im still new to this... I gained 20 pounds in the summer! but since then its been slow... i recenlty visited a nutritionist and hopefully it will get better, but there is still the problem of working out at night.

and thanks for the pullups post! I do pullups on my B day (i listed my workouts on my last post) and dips on my A day
I recently added bicep curls cause i felt i want hitting my biceps even with all those squats and presses...

2)do you have any tips on good form on squats? i mean, i think im doing them well but i always could go for more knowledge!

3)also i need good ab workouts. I want to add those to one of my days, but im not sure whats a good ab workout... i want one that will hurt and really work!

thanks

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by shamguy4

Thanks a lot for your replies!
Sorry it took so long to reply back! im busy with college and stuff...
I have a few questions:

1)so what should I eat after I work out? a whole meal? a fruit? how much? cause after i work out I just want to shower and hit my bed...

Some carb and protein. Rice and steak or some such like that. Include a salad or some other vegetable. IOW, eat normally.

And mixing my chocolate flavored protein with gatorade was like taking a drink from hell.... I did it one time cause i wanted the carbs and the protein.

Try one cup skim milk, one cup fat free vanilla or cherry yogurt (these flavors should go well with chocolate), some fruit of choice (I would stick with cherries) and oats.

About 1/3 of your carbs should be fructose.

2)do you have any tips on good form on squats? i mean, i think im doing them well but i always could go for more knowledge!

Can't really advise w/o know your current form. In general, squeeze the glutes together, sweep the floor with the feet, chest and head up, break at the hips first w/o leaning forward, don't lift any part of your foot.

3)also i need good ab workouts. I want to add those to one of my days, but im not sure whats a good ab workout... i want one that will hurt and really work!

I've heard ab punches hurt. Doubt they're effective though.

There is a multitude of ab exercises. But it's not the exercise that is effective, but how you execute it that matters. Someone doing crunches incorrectly won't get a max return on their efforts.

Some ideas: crunches on a swiss-ball. Russian Twists (a fav of mine), cable pull-downs, woodchoppers, etc.

If the crunches and russian twist is too easy, add weight.

[shamguy4]

wait... your saying I should mix my protein with yogurt and oats and have that during my workout?
thats gonna be very filling...

and basically... I should eat supper after I work out rather than before hand