Has anybody checked out the T-Nation "Physique Clinic" that started recently? I think it's pretty great, though Thibbedeau and Shugart are really hard on those guys. I suppose that's what it will take. I would love to do something like that.
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It looks interesting. I've followed a couple of the threads. They have to be hard on those guys. Doing the coaching virtually they have to trust the trainee a lot more than usual.
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So far its kinda amusing that everyone on there is a "level 4" member.
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I think it is pretty cool, getting the supplements for free and the diet and advice and all. It's cool that they get to be on an email basis with coaches like CT
How long is it? Ive yet to see someone without using drugs put on all that much muscle in 3 months before.. let alone staying lean at the same time. I think the fat-loss people will have much better transformations to the eye.
I seen the little bar but didn't dive into what it is. Can anyone give a run down on what's going on?
T-Nation has a new feature called "Physique Clinic" where their trainers pick people to train online and help them improve their physique. Right now it's just Thibbideau (sp?) and Shuggart, but they give them 3 months worth of Biotest supplements and CT gives them workouts and a diet and the contestants need to post their results each day. Shuggart works on more of the pyschological aspect of it and CT is the main trainer.
How long is it? Ive yet to see someone without using drugs put on all that much muscle in 3 months before.. let alone staying lean at the same time. I think the fat-loss people will have much better transformations to the eye.
the skinny guys may get on the right track, but really are looking at 3-5lbs of muscle most likely (which would be 12-20lbs per year.. amazing for non-newbie). Can you visably tell that kind of weight gain? I doubt it..
But, the guys loosing fat can probally loose 2lbs per week or so. 24lbs of fat lost.. that is a big difference and will look great.
I have a problem with CT telling the guys who need to lose weight that they can't use "any condiments." Talk about a set up for failure. He's normally pretty on the ball when it comes to training but I scratch my head when he goes all OCD bodybuilding clean eatz.
I have a problem with CT telling the guys who need to lose weight that they can't use "any condiments." Talk about a set up for failure. He's normally pretty on the ball when it comes to training but I scratch my head when he goes all OCD bodybuilding clean eatz.
Yea I agree. I think CT is one of their best, I enjoy reading his stuff (and Shugart's) as much as anybody's on that site, but he makes it seem like there is no room for error. Even Berardi says there's no difference between 90% and 100% compliance. Hey, I wouldn't be able to eat so many eggs without ketchup or chicken breast without BBQ sauce, there's gotta be some room for modification there.
But I do suppose the point of this whole Clinic thing is "Ok, Tubbs, you're going to do what we say, you're going to go all out, and you're going to train and eat like a real bodybuilder, those are the rules."
I know I wouldn't be able to handle that level of commitment. To me condements are ways to make healthy foods taste better and make me more likely to eat them.
I have a problem with CT telling the guys who need to lose weight that they can't use "any condiments." Talk about a set up for failure. He's normally pretty on the ball when it comes to training but I scratch my head when he goes all OCD bodybuilding clean eatz.
I think there are some communication issues going on there, too. CT also said no coffee, but when asked, he said coffee was fine, and that he meant that he didn't want the guy to have milk, cream, or sugar. I guess "no coffee" is easier to type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffty Cent
Yea I agree. I think CT is one of their best, I enjoy reading his stuff (and Shugart's) as much as anybody's on that site, but he makes it seem like there is no room for error. Even Berardi says there's no difference between 90% and 100% compliance. Hey, I wouldn't be able to eat so many eggs without ketchup or chicken breast without BBQ sauce, there's gotta be some room for modification there.
But I do suppose the point of this whole Clinic thing is "Ok, Tubbs, you're going to do what we say, you're going to go all out, and you're going to train and eat like a real bodybuilder, those are the rules."
I know I wouldn't be able to handle that level of commitment. To me condements are ways to make healthy foods taste better and make me more likely to eat them.
Maybe, but these are all guys that haven't been able to cut it on their own. Start strict and teach them how to eat.
If you're eating a low carb diet, then ketchup and bbq are out of the question. Ketchup is sugar sweetened tomato sauce. Bbq sauce is sugar sweetened ketchup, so...
Personally, I'd give them someone a list of condiments they CAN eat, like salsa for their eggs and chicken. But, if they were asking for help (like in their request to be included in the program) because they can't get lean, I'd start off tough to give them some definite success, then add things in as they prove themselves.
Plus, it's t-nation. They are trying to look manly.
Very true. Personally I hadn't thought that much about the ketchup and BBQ sauce. I've read the labels and there's only a couple of grams of sugar in the ones I use so I let it slide, but I could probably stand to only use a little bit or spice up my eggs with more chili powder.
I think the red-and-yellow-font-on-black-background makes it ESPECIALLY manly.
I think there are some communication issues going on there, too. CT also said no coffee, but when asked, he said coffee was fine, and that he meant that he didn't want the guy to have milk, cream, or sugar. I guess "no coffee" is easier to type.
Maybe, but these are all guys that haven't been able to cut it on their own. Start strict and teach them how to eat.
If you're eating a low carb diet, then ketchup and bbq are out of the question. Ketchup is sugar sweetened tomato sauce. Bbq sauce is sugar sweetened ketchup, so...
Personally, I'd give them someone a list of condiments they CAN eat, like salsa for their eggs and chicken. But, if they were asking for help (like in their request to be included in the program) because they can't get lean, I'd start off tough to give them some definite success, then add things in as they prove themselves.
Plus, it's t-nation. They are trying to look manly.
See, and that's the problem. You can eat what you want so long as you manage your calories. It's this kind of thinking (and the sort of attitude promulgated on fitness/bbing websites) that fuels eating disorders. Go look at bodybuilding.com forums - it's tons of 15 year old kids freaking out about the GI of their carbs.
I know that kind of stuff put forth in mainstream media and from purported "gurus" gave me serious food phobias.
See, and that's the problem. You can eat what you want so long as you manage your calories. It's this kind of thinking (and the sort of attitude promulgated on fitness/bbing websites) that fuels eating disorders. Go look at bodybuilding.com forums - it's tons of 15 year old kids freaking out about the GI of their carbs.
I know that kind of stuff put forth in mainstream media and from purported "gurus" gave me serious food phobias.
You CAN. But, you probably will do better if you don't.
I think CT goes overboard on the carbs (sugarless gum is forbidden because of the 1g per piece, for instance), but if he believes that someone will do better on low carb and he instructs them to go low carb, I really don't think that's a big deal. Low carb diets are not dangerous or unhealthy.
He's giving them simple rules to follow, rather than make them read a whole book. Maybe he goes overboard, but by and large, dieters are stupid. They think liquids are cool, so they drink a coke or put sugar in their tea. They think condiments are cool, so they don't count the Ranch dressing or side of tartar sauce.
And, once you're on the low carb diet, little sugary things can break you and cause you to cave in to your cravings.
Diet isn't just about what your body can handle, it's what your mind and willpower can handle, as well.
Oh, and my most obsessive dieting phase was when I was merely counting calories. My family practically had an intervention because of all the weighing and measuring.
As an ecto he'll benefit greatly from SURGE Workout Fuel. This product makes it almost impossible to overtrain!
give. me. a. break.
let me quote what CT said ummmm, maybe 2 posts above this?
Quote:
Most ectomorphs have a low capacity to tolerate strength training; for them a high volume approach is generally a very bad idea and end up in more frustration (from lack of growth) than anything. From what you tell me, I think that this applies to you and as a result you will grow best from a low-volume approach
However, ectomorphs are also low responders when it comes to strength training. While some mesomorphs almost grow only by looking a weights, ectomorphs need a very powerful stimulus to coax the body into growth.
So this is the approach I will use with you when it comes to your training program. We need a powerful stimulus, BUT we cannot get it from doing a lot of work. So you'll need to train hard.
so, he will be spinning his wheels if he does a "high volume" workout, or does more sets than he needs? But, if he takes SURGE, then he will be fine? Why even change the way he works out then? Couldn't he just drink SURGE, and then everything will be fine, and he'll never overtrain, and the planets will align and everything will be happy?
I just don't see how he could be over training, if he's doing a low volume routine? Oh wait, he can NEVER be over training if he has SURGE!!!
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LOL!!!hahahahaha
almost impossible to train with surge workout fuel.. the only thing i wonder is if sometimes they beleive their own BS.
It's true!! if you double dose it's teh deadly! And it's too powerful for us to buy so only elite athletes (and those guys) can handle its awesomeness.
I think all in all it's a good concept, but I don't see the problem with having ketchup on your fries or steak sauce with your chicken.
I think all in all it's a good concept, but I don't see the problem with having ketchup on your fries or steak sauce with your chicken.
Or mustard for that matter! It's the not ketchup that'll get you, it's the fries you put it on. If using ketchup helps someone eat otherwise plain chicken breasts and broccoli all day, then I think it's a win.
As far as their Surge recommendation goes, their goal is to sell supplements. They have to pay for the site and all that goes with it somehow. I do think that they might sell more if they were a little more subtle, but that's their call. With that said I use some Surge because it does taste good (to me anyways). I say some because I use a 1/2 serving of it and then add my own bulk whey. I can get the flavor without all of the costs
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Or mustard for that matter! It's the not ketchup that'll get you, it's the fries you put it on. If using ketchup helps someone eat otherwise plain chicken breasts and broccoli all day, then I think it's a win.
As far as their Surge recommendation goes, their goal is to sell supplements. They have to pay for the site and all that goes with it somehow. I do think that they might sell more if they were a little more subtle, but that's their call. With that said I use some Surge because it does taste good (to me anyways). I say some because I use a 1/2 serving of it and then add my own bulk whey. I can get the flavor without all of the costs
yes, i get that their goal is to sell supplements. That's what this whole series is about. They pick 5 or 6 guys out of 450, most with some sort of base, and then they have them lose the small amount of weight they're carrying (or gain), and then they say it was all their supplements that did it.
It's a very smart marketing campaign, but that's it. I don't even look at their articles anymore because all they are is advertisements.
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I've never used any Biotest supplements, I will assume they are at least good. I'm sure there are threads on here somewhere, but has anybody thought of making their own Metabolic Drive or Surge mixes? I think I saw somebody said it's 30% whey, 70% casein. I don't know what's in Surge, but some ideas would be cool, I think.
BTW is casein really worth buying? I just get as much whey as I can because it's cheaper. I've never found any casein that's affordable for me but I've heard it's better for meal replacements due to its slow breakdown. I should read more about this stuff.
I don't like at the start of each participant's clinic, I read Shugart say "Thibs, what do you recommend for this guy?"...."well, Shugs, this guy needs SURGE, Metabolic Drive, Beta-7..." and everything else under the Biotest sun. They say the same thing for every person, it can't be much more blatant than that.
I would still take the 10 tubs of protein, though.
For the Surge, Gatorade and whey is what I, and a good deal of others, use. 2 servings (1.5 scoops) Gatorade powder to 1 scoop of whey. I know others also like maltodextrin or something like that instead of Gatorade.
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I don't know what's in Surge, but some ideas would be cool, I think.
Surge is essentially whey protein+sugar+BCAA. Biotest will tell you that the protein is special and super fast, and that BCAAs are essential for getting huge or lean. But really, all surge=protein+sugar for a high price. A racket, in my opinion. Although, Biotest has done a good job of convincing a large amount of people that they need it, so more power to them.
You can make your own "surge" by combining whey protein(preferably vanilla or fruit flavored), with gatorade powder. Or, you can use my cutting-edge post-workout strategy--lots of food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffty Cent
BTW is casein really worth buying? I just get as much whey as I can because it's cheaper. I've never found any casein that's affordable for me but I've heard it's better for meal replacements due to its slow breakdown. I should read more about this stuff.
I wouldn't buy it, as they are plenty of other ways to get "slow" protein--Milk(80 percent casein), cottage cheese, any type of solid meat/fish with veggies and fat. If you're always on the go and drink a lot of shakes, OK, maybe then.
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who cares if protein is slow digesting? throw some fats in with the protein and make it slower digesting.
supplement companies make stuff sound so difficult, but in reality, if you just eat good lean proteins, good fats, and then fill in the gaps with carbs, then you're good. You don't need beta-442, hot rox, etc.
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Yea I started doing the whey/gatorade thing a while ago, I like it. I use strawberry whey and blue gatorade powder, surprisingly good-tasting.
As far as maltodextrin, do I go to Stop & Shop and buy a bag of it? I've never seen it before and every time I see people write about I wonder what form it's in. In the sugar aisle I've never noticed a bag of maltodextrin before.
I'll stick with the whey/gatorade, I'm using the ratios from Adam's Diet and I like it a lot so far.
I'll stick with the whey/gatorade, I'm using the ratios from Adam's Diet and I like it a lot so far.
What ratio is that?
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T-Nation's "Physique Clinic"
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