RE: Tony G's Blog (ab/posture question) - JP Fitness Forums

raymond3 · 11-16-2007, 10:17 AM

I didnt want to hijack the other thread, so I'll ask my question here. First off, thanks Alc for posting, as I really enjoyed the blog. Tony has always been cool on here and even back on the rugged forums. In my opinion, the guy knows his shit and is also quite amusing in his writings.

The question I have is, Im one of the computer dudes (not by choice, but presently I am until I get a promo to management)...you know, sitting all day behind a computer and fucking my posture up. In his blog, he states doing crunches and pulling or stretching your pelvis towards your head is the worst thing you can for posture, especially after sitting behind a computer all day. Ive read before that for lordosis, doing leg raises is also bad. So my question is, should one in my situation (computer dude), be steering away from any direct ab work at all, and just do core exercises...or would minimal direct ab work be okay? Thanks in advance.

I. Kay · 11-16-2007, 12:21 PM

Well, first answer these questions:
- Do you have bad posture? A noticeablely excessive lordotic curve?
- Do you have pain in your back/knees, etc?
- Why do you feel the need to do crunches/leg raises, etc?

If you answered "yes" to the first or second questions, then Tony's likely correct: crunches, etc. probably are doing more harm than good. And if the answer is "no", then consider that these things might occur if you continue along this path.

If you answered "looks" for the third question, well, posture effects your looks. Besides, unless your bodyfat % is really damn low, pounding on those abs isn't doing much for your looks. If it's not "looks", then it would be for strength and/or health. In which case there's minimal need for them.

Lisa~ · 11-16-2007, 05:04 PM

If you meet the computer guy criteria (as Ian explained), then you'll probably be best served by choosing movements that teach core stability (planks and side planks and their variations, elbow touches, mountain climbers, push-up variations, renegade rows, stability ball pikes, etc.). You will most likely want to add movements that improve hip mobility while maintaining lumbar stability, like spiderman climbs. Flexion movements will exacerbate your postural issues.

Tony Gentilcore · 11-17-2007, 06:24 AM

Ian and Lisa hit the nail on the head. To be honest, I haven't performed a "crunch" variation with a client in like three years whether they're "computer guy (or gal, sorry ladies)" or not.

I feel that if people spent more time training the FUNCTION of the abdominals (ie: preventing hoop stress) rather than their ACTION (ie: trunk flexion), they would be much better off. Pallof presses, landmines, planks, etc.

IMO, computer guys need more: push-up variations, single leg work, horizontal pulling, scapular retraction, hip/scapular/ankle mobility, and posterior chain work (rack pulls, pull-throughs, glute ham raises). Less: horizontal pushing (or at the very least, just stick to DB work), machines (you sit all day, why would you ever want to train sitting too?), pulldowns, crunches, etc.

LisaS · 11-17-2007, 12:49 PM

what is a "landmine"?

Lisa~ · 11-17-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaS

what is a "landmine"?

I first learned these with the name full contact twist, but the execution was more explosive. You don't have to have the piece of equipment either. You can just jam your barbell into a corner padded with a towel.

There's a video of a landmine in this article by Mike Boyle:

The Real "Core" Exercise

UConnJulie · 11-19-2007, 07:33 AM

Don't forget thoracic mobility ... an important component for "computer guy" ... if you are training the core stability in a flexed thoracic position, that is not ideal ... better to work on improving thoracic mobility and extension, and train the abs to be strong in that position.

grepat · 11-19-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Gentilcore

IMO, computer guys need more: push-up variations, single leg work, horizontal pulling, scapular retraction, hip/scapular/ankle mobility, and posterior chain work (rack pulls, pull-throughs, glute ham raises). Less: horizontal pushing (or at the very least, just stick to DB work), machines (you sit all day, why would you ever want to train sitting too?), pulldowns, crunches, etc.

As a computer guy, this thread intrigues me....Everything on your list makes sense to me but I'm curious, though, why no (or less w/ DBs) horizontal pushing but you recommend push-up variations? I'm missing something there and I'm not sure I follow the reduction of pulldowns, either.

ps - I was recently pointed to your blog over at the Boston Herald and have been enjoying a lot of good reading....keep up the good work!

LisaS · 11-19-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa~

I first learned these with the name full contact twist, but the execution was more explosive. You don't have to have the piece of equipment either. You can just jam your barbell into a corner padded with a towel.

There's a video of a landmine in this article by Mike Boyle:

The Real "Core" Exercise

actually, to me the landmine looks like a very different exercise than the one I know as "full contact twist" - the difference being resisting rotation vs. weighted rotation. need to get a set of those handles I guess for best effect.

Tony Gentilcore · 11-19-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grepat

As a computer guy, this thread intrigues me....Everything on your list makes sense to me but I'm curious, though, why no (or less w/ DBs) horizontal pushing but you recommend push-up variations? I'm missing something there and I'm not sure I follow the reduction of pulldowns, either.

ps - I was recently pointed to your blog over at the Boston Herald and have been enjoying a lot of good reading....keep up the good work!

1. Go to t-nation and read mine and Jimmy Smith's article(s) De-Constructing Computer Guy (there are two parts). You'll find the answers to all your questions there.

2. DB's allow for a bit more external rotation (using a barbell locks you in a pronated grip, and hence....internal rotation). Push-ups are considered a closed chain movement and allow for the scapulae to move a bit more. Bench variations are open chained and lock the scapulae into a fixed position. Not good if we're trying to improve thoracic mobility.

3. Pulldowns = more internal rotation. Again, not good.

raymond3 · 11-19-2007, 12:43 PM

Thanks guys and Tony for the input, much appreciated..

Lisa~ · 11-19-2007, 01:28 PM

Here are the links to Tony's excellent articles:

(De)-Constructing Computer Guy, Part 1

(De)-Constructing Computer Guy,Part 2, The Other 23 Hours

And if you want to read more about why push-ups are a better choice than bench presses in this situation, you can read Bill Hartman's and Mike Robertson's must read article Push-Ups, Face Pulls, and Shrugs.

BjsAust · 11-19-2007, 06:14 PM

Thanks Tony and Lisa, off to read those articles now.

I can remember pushing towards body weight DB bench presses and thinking pushups were for woosies. Doing T pushups on afterburn now, and by the time I've done eight each side, theres nothing 'woosie' about them :p.

As a computer programmer whos had some issues with his shoulders doing exercises its nice to get on the right track.

grepat · 11-20-2007, 07:23 AM

Thanks for the info and direction to your articles, Tony! I read them a few times and enjoyed very much.

I didn't know sleeping on your stomach causes that much stress on your back....I've slept that way my entire life.

Thanks for the additional link on the face pulls, shrugs, and pushups article Lisa. I gave that one a few reads and am going to try and incorporate much of what I've read into my workouts/off-days/active recovery.

I'll be a computer guy for a while longer so this should help.