Shoulder Press Question

[Colonel]

OK, next week I start a new routine, ramping up intensity again to maybe get some decent size (for an old guy! LOL).

My shoulder routine has 'military shoulder press' and 'standing shoulder press' as 2 separate exercises. My research has them as the same exercise, are they? Is military a seated press? Guess I'm confused.

I'm thinking I'll do the military as seated then the standing. The other 2 shoulder exercises are side lat raises and shrugs. Seated and standing shouldn't be overkill. Should it?

Thanx for the help!

[Alcoholiday]

you most likely only need 1 type of overhead press. A traditional military press is a strict press where your heels are touching, and toes pointed out. Typically though, people don't do them this way anymore.

I personally don't like seated overhead presses, as they put a lot more pressure on your lower back (not in a good way). Standing overhead presses might be referring to the bar starting on your back, like a squat, and pressing that way. People with good shoulder flexibility can do these. People w/ bad flexibility should avoid these.

It depends what your goals are i guess. But, if you want a good overhead press, you need strong shoulders, and strong triceps. You don't even need any sort of raises if you're doing overhead presses. I would throw in maybe some face pulls, or rear delt raises though.

[John Izzo]

I belive you should do as many exercises as you can standing.(Even if they are called "seated....")

Military press has always been conventionally a bodybuilding seated exercise, although it has been performed the way Alcholiday described. Leave your presses to DBs...want more intensity? You should stand.

[ParanoidAndroid]

you are right that militaries=standing. That it why they are called militaries--you do them standing with an upright position, as if you were standing in line in the military.

from t-nation article "shoulder training bible":

3. The barbell military press: Let's get one thing straight: you can't perform a seated military press. It's impossible! A soldier doesn't sit at attention, does he?

The term "military" refers to the posture taken during the execution of the exercise: hold yourself like a soldier standing at attention: chest puffed out, heels close together, legs straight, chin tucked in, shoulders back.

But, if your program said both, they probably want to do standing and seated.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

you are right that militaries=standing. That it why they are called militaries--you do them standing with an upright position, as if you were standing in line in the military.

OH! Here's a great excuse to post this picture. :p

Here's a real military press:





I know, I know. Really old joke and everybody's seen 'em. But they're still funny. (Actually this wasn't the funniest of that bunch from Supertraining.)

[Lisa~]

Colonel, what program is it? And why would it include two overhead presses and lateral raises? Overkill IMO. But if knew the program we might have some better suggestions about the intent of the author.

Or maybe some suggestions for a better program altogether. :p

[igunick]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

Colonel, what program is it? And why would it include two overhead presses and lateral raises? Overkill IMO. But if knew the program we might have some better suggestions about the intent of the author.

Or maybe some suggestions for a better program altogether. :p

That's not overkill. It's only overkill if you don't eat and sleep enough.
It is however probably pretty time consuming doing those exercices combined with the other exercises in the program. That's why I'd only do the OH presses. But then again, I write my own routines and don't have to follow a premade one.

[Colonel]

Thanx everyone!

A - Yeah, I gave up the idea of behind the neck presses several routines ago, ocasionally I'll do a set with only the bar, for old times sake! I like the face pull idea, I'll have to incorporate that, since I have a slot where 1 shoulder press will be gone.

Lisa, it's a program from Bodybuilders.com. The poster was 'funkyb5150' (hey, I didn't name him! LOL) and the routime looked interesting so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'm really not sure where he got it, or if he created it. Plus the fact I doing a routine from a guy 30 years younger than me doesn't (hardly) indimidate me at all! LOL

Alan

[Rawgrip]

Over head pressing whilst standing is good to max out but many people cheat when they get fatigued. They simply squat thrust up the weight making it easier for the shoulders. Hence you can usually lift up more weight then sitting.

Whilst sitting this eliminates the cheating issue and concentrates more on your delts, meaning you lift lighter weights but with more isolation. I really recommend you do one compound movement for your rotator cuff, try the Cuban press at the end of your work out. Only need 2x10 if you striped of time. This should prevent any shoulder dis-functionality.

Well good luck

[McCarley]

Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

you are right that militaries=standing. That it why they are called militaries--you do them standing with an upright position, as if you were standing in line in the military.

from t-nation article "shoulder training bible":



But, if your program said both, they probably want to do standing and seated.

Actually yes. People in the military do sit at attention.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by igunick

That's not overkill. It's only overkill if you don't eat and sleep enough.
It is however probably pretty time consuming doing those exercices combined with the other exercises in the program. That's why I'd only do the OH presses. But then again, I write my own routines and don't have to follow a premade one.

i think it is overkill. If you're exerting yourself on a few sets of military presses, you won't need to do seated, and isolation stuff. We never do more than 1 overhead pressing variation a workout.

[jvernacchio]

Originally Posted by Colonel

Thanx everyone!

A - Yeah, I gave up the idea of behind the neck presses several routines ago, ocasionally I'll do a set with only the bar, for old times sake! I like the face pull idea, I'll have to incorporate that, since I have a slot where 1 shoulder press will be gone.

Lisa, it's a program from Bodybuilders.com. The poster was 'funkyb5150' (hey, I didn't name him! LOL) and the routime looked interesting so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'm really not sure where he got it, or if he created it. Plus the fact I doing a routine from a guy 30 years younger than me doesn't (hardly) indimidate me at all! LOL

Alan

Most of the crap at BB.com is pretty worthless. There are far better routines from the authors here you could find that would be way better for your body.

[igunick]

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

i think it is overkill. If you're exerting yourself on a few sets of military presses, you won't need to do seated, and isolation stuff. We never do more than 1 overhead pressing variation a workout.

Oh you mean you have to do both OH presses in one workout? Yeah that's pretty stupid. I thought you had to do an MP on day 1 and the other OH press on day 2.

[Frank.S]

Why are seated oh presses harder on your back then say, a box squat? I mean, say i press 50lbs db's overhead, but box squat 200lbs, wouldn't there be way more pressure on your back on the squat?

I cant do them standing. Cant get the weights up when I start going a heavier. Can get them up with assistance with a partner while sitting down though.

Mind you, its easy to get 1-db up standing.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Why are seated oh presses harder on your back then say, a box squat?

because it is.


hopefully lisa of pmdl or someone will chime in, but i believe it has to do w/ the line where the weight is distributed. If the weight is overhead, then the weight will all be pressured on your lower back if seated. If you're standing, the weight will be distributed throughout your entire body, and to the floor. Boxed squats put pressure on your lower back, but at the same time, you're not just sitting on the box with the weight. You're touching the box, releasing your hips, and going. You also have prime movers doing the lifting (legs, glutes, hamstrings), where on a shoulder press you have a smaller area where the load is distributed (your shoulders).

That's the way i took it. I've seated mp before, and didn't like them at all.

[Frank.S]

Id be impressed seeing someone get 100+lbs dbs in both hands in place while standing. 1db, no problem, 2, no idea how you would do it.

Its not like your feet are floating either, you are going to be driving into the ground at all times like in a bench press if you are staying tight throughout the lift.

Yes, less big muscles are being used, but your also using alot less weight. I think there is alot of concern over something that is not that big of a deal. Have you ever legitimately heard of someone hurting their back from an overhead press while seated?

BB, I do prefer standing because I can use more weight.

[I. Kay]

Colonel, no offense to you or to funkyboy, but I have my doubts that you should be doing his routine. First of all, who is this guy? Second of all, did he write it for you? Third, if he did write it for you, what did he base it on? Fourth, why are you getting your programs from a bodybuilding site? :p

[UConnJulie]

I'd be cautious of a program written by someone who is not a professional ... it sounds unbalanced and you don't want to give yourself an injury self-created by performing an unbalanced program. Overloading pressing is a common reason for shoulder pain/injury ... JMHO.