Question on my Split Routine & OT

[Bok]

Hi everyone, I am new here so if this question has been asked, which I am sure it has..my apologies but I could not find it in FAQ. I have been lifting steady for about 7 months now and have made some decent gains. After trying different routines I finally landed a split routine I enjoy. However lately I am starting to think I am Over-training my biceps.
I do a [Chest / Shoulder / Tri] split and a [Bi /Back] split..(In that order btw) Then Legs.

My Triceps have made huge gains but my Biceps just do not ever seem capable of any real weight increase or visible size increase.

I always start my Bi / Back day with curls (6-8 sets variating the curl every 2 sets) then move on to back.

But with my Triceps I always left them after I finished up my chest and shoulder routines.

My logic to this was to really focus on the biceps by working them first before they get burned out doing other pulling routines, but it seems that the opposite is happening.

So the beef of my question is...
Should I just simply move my curls to the end of that split or just put bi's and tri's in a split of their own?
I've seen this advised but it would seem I would be faced with potential over training again due to working the arms again later with compound exercises.

-Or is 6-8 sets just too many for an isolated routine such as a curl?

Thanks in advance for any tips

[Frank.S]

Your biceps just dont need that much work. I do about 3 sets of biceps per week, actually, for re-hab/injury prevention and not growth and my arms are just shy of 18 inches around cold at their biggest point.

The simplest thing you could do would be:
- Do the heavy compound lifts first (BB rows/chins pulls)
- Do the isolation later.

The best thing you could do:
- Dont follow a bodypart split unless your an advanced bb'er. At least follow a movement split (push/pull/legs or something like that).

[Simon C]

What Frank said...(he has big arms )

A [Chest / Shoulder / Tri] split and a [Bi /Back] split is pretty much the same as a Push(Presses)/Pull/Legs split anyway, I just think its better to think of the movements rather than the bodypart worked.

In my opinion, 6-8 sets for curls is too much, and just a waste of time(you probably won\'t overtrain on curls), and will force you to use less weight on the back exercises later on in the workout.

Move the curls to the end of the workout, cut down the sets.

[I. Kay]

You'll find that most people on this forum don't go in for the classic bodybuilding-type splits. And not soley because many are more interested in strength & health rather than looks... there is a lot to be said for targeting big, compound lifts over isolation movements for growth too. I'd say especially if you're in the first year of lifting, agressively progressing with rows and chinups will be great for your biceps. Pressing for triceps too, instead of extensions, etc.

You would do well to build a routine around things like squats, deadlifts, rows, horizontal presses (bench press, pushups), chinups/pullups and vertical presses (military press, etc.).

Leave the isolation work for after you've built a good base.

(Don't get me wrong: curls can and will aid biceps growth. But it's a matter of what's most valuable at this point in your lifting "career", and what your body can and will recover and rebuild from.)

[Bok]

So I will move curls to the end of my work out and tone down to 3-4 sets.

Thanks for the advice. I''ll implement immediately

Ya I think I'd stop trying to gain with 18" arms too lol.

[Lisa~]

If the program you are currently using is not giving you the results you’re seeking, then you should consider changing your approach. Moving curls to the end might not be enough of a change. A movement-based training program is not only a healthier approach, but may prove more effective as well.

Adam Campbell and Alwyn Cosgrove wrote a very informative article called Inside the Muscle Laboratories. The article includes a workout from Alwyn. Here’s a quote that I hope will peak your interest:

“Performing total-body workouts, three times a week, is the most effective way gain muscle.” Unfortunately, that advice in direct contradiction with what most guys actually do. That’s because almost everyone subscribes to a leftover from the Stay Hungry days of weightlifting: what Cosgrove calls “bodypart training.”

You might also enjoy reading a follow up article by Alwyn: Breaking Glass

And Mike Boyle’s A Joint-by-Joint Approach to Training adds some excellent additional information.

[Bok]

Wow Lisa, that just threw everything I thought I knew out the window.

I take it others on here are practicing this routine?
What about variations like flat bench and incline? Should both be done in one gym visit or flat one day and incline the next?

I find the idea pretty exciting. I just gotta get it down on paper so I don't end up at the gym for 3 hours at a time.

[jvernacchio]

Originally Posted by Bok

Wow Lisa, that just threw everything I thought I knew out the window.

I take it others on here are practicing this routine?
What about variations like flat bench and incline? Should both be done in one gym visit or flat one day and incline the next?

I find the idea pretty exciting. I just gotta get it down on paper so I don't end up at the gym for 3 hours at a time.

Read anything and everything by Mark Ripptoe.

[karky]

I use the full body approach, used a split before too, but diden't see much gains with that. As a beginner to the FBW (full body workout) I wouldn't do incline and flat on the same day. I'd rather stick with no more than one exercise per movement. Here are some basic movements you should know:

Vertical push (think military press, overhead press)
Vertical pull (pullups, pulldowns, etc)
Horizontal push (bench press, pushups)
Horizontal pull (bent over row, cable row)
Hip dominant (deadlifts, romanian deadlifts)
Knee dominant (squats, front squats etc)

there are some more, like rotation, etc, but these will suit to fit my example:
a very basic way to do a FBW is to pick one hip and/or knee dominant, and either vertical or horizontal push and pull (you can vary vertical and horizontal on different days). I'm not saying that's the only way to do it, but it's a very basic setup that will probobly work. Then at the end you can throw in some isolation if you want, but not too much.

[jvernacchio]

Open the attachment follow the rest, rep, weight parameters. Lots of folks have done it and gotten good/great results from the workout.

[Simon C]

I prefer to put one major pressing movement in a workout, If you do two the performance on the second one will suffer. But aslong as you know that, its fine.

[Bok]

Thanks for the great spread sheet. What does the "% 1RM" mean though?

[jvernacchio]

Originally Posted by Bok

Thanks for the great spread sheet. What does the "% 1RM" mean though?

Percentage of 1 rep maximum

Example

1 rep maximum Dead lift = 455lbs

80%1RM = 364lbs