Couple of questions

[tossedup]

Should you do ass to grass squats if you have a messed up back? I have heard not to from a couple of people and online but have also heard they are best for overall leg development. Another thing is I was doing front and side lat raises last night with just 15 pound db and today the back of my shoulder is killing me at the bottom of my trap where it meets my colar bone goning in towards my neck. What muscle weakness would cause this? Or is it some kind of shoulder impingment? ( I didn't know whether to put this question in the injury section or not). Thanks for any replies.

[Cynic]

What's the nature of the messed up back?

How bad it the pain in your shoulders? Is it an ache or a sharp stabbing pain? If this is the first time you've done lat raises, I'll assume first it's the muscle getting "broken in."

[tossedup]

Cynic I have 9 herneated disc 3 buldging disc and 3 pinched nerves from car wrecks. I have done lat raises before but not in a while. The pain is better this morning I slept with an ice bag on my shoulder and have been streching it out a good bit. It was more of a stabbing pain.

[Brian A.]

"Cynic I have 9 herneated disc 3 buldging disc and 3 pinched nerves" ... and a partridge in a pear treeeeee. Sorry I had to.

Damn man that's a lot of back problems. Have you gone through all of the rehab? What exercises did you do for rehab? Are there any limmitations that your Dr. or therapist has put you on? Where are the pinched nerves and disk problems located? They could be related to the sharp shoulder pain.

If you haven't been working out regularly you should definetly be doing some functional body weight training before jumping into deep squats. You want to build back up your stabilizer strength or your just asking for herniated disk #10.

[tossedup]

[tossedup]

Brian I have gone through two 6 months periods of rehab so a year total. The had me do a lot of stretching and some swiss ball squats. A good bit of swiss ball work actually. I have a fairly decent range of motion on most exercises but was looking to add some size to my legs but defiantly didn't want to injury myself in the process. The PT told me not to do any exercises that contract the spine like military press, and full ROM deadlifts. The pinched nerve is in the ball of my neck where my neck meets my back. The other two are right above my hips on both sides. I think the pinched nerve in my neck really had something to do with my shoulder hurting. I slept with an ice bag on my shoulder and elevated it as much as possible and it helped a lot. The budging disc are in my neck the rest are from the base of my neck to my tailbone. I have been working out for about 3 years straight with a couple of months off here and there for injuries vacation and such. Lat raises and dips on bars leaning forward are the only exercises that cause my shoulder a hell of a lot of pain. I was told that I have tendonitis in both shoulders but I don't think that is what is going on because it was not a pain that I have felt before it was a horrible pain that radaited down my arm into my fingers. I think I will just stick to various other styles of squats unless there is overwellming evidence that I should be doing ass to grass squats.

[Sam S]

Squat depth is dependent on your ability to maintain the desired spinal posture. Most guys that squat to full depth outside of the olympic lifting crowd do not have the hip flexibility to do so without a flexed spine.

[Iamjennmedic]

So if you can do a deep squat and maintain good form and spinal alignment your good to go?? I do front squats(no racks) and i go about 4 inches from the ground, but the weightisn't anywhere near what you guys squat. Will going so low affect the amount you can lift??? Its not bad to go so low right??

[Brian A.]

"The PT told me not to do any exercises that contract the spine like military press, and full ROM deadlifts. "

Do you mean compress the spine? If so then shoulder loaded squats will also compress the spine. Unless your form is flawless, and most people's isn't even those who think it is, then in your case there is more risk than possible reward.

I usually don't reccomend using isolation exercises, but if you primary goal is to add size to your legs then you may want to use some leg press, quad ext, ham curl machines. These machines will allow you to get more weight with less risk on your spine. Just be careful to keep pressure off of your back, use good form, and progress the weight slowly.

I would also supplement the machine work with some functional exercises, like the ball squats you spoke of, as well as some core work. By doing this you can safely work on growing you legs and without neglecting the stabilizers and core.

[tossedup]

Sorry I meant compressing the spine. That sucks because my squat numbers have been improving nicely. I actually video taped my squat this morning and it looked solid. Ass out, chest up, and back naturally arched. I will take it easy though and move up in weight slowly. I don't have a leg press but have the rest of the equipment to do quad extensions and ham curls. Thanks for the advise.

[Chris Correia]

Spinal compression and heavy weight on the back sounds like eventual bad news.

Might be time to work front squats for a few months. Word is that you can get fairly equal to back squat in time.

[tossedup]

Chris I was actually thinking about mixing up my squat style on this morning. I was thinking front squats and hack squats. Was also wondering if sumo squats would be beneficial. I have never done front squats with anything but dumb bells so it should be interesting to give the barbell ones a try. Any opinions on the squat variations I listed above?

[Chris Correia]

I've read several trainers who have esstially said the front squat can substitute for the back squat. I've tried the dumbell version, but I think you can cheat with more of a forward lean on that than with the bar on your shoulders. I'm just working into front squat myself, and doing a progression suggested by Mike Boyle in his Functional Training for Sports: starting with just the bar on your shoulders, arms straight out in front, so you have to keep proper form and keep the bar racked on your shoulders with just body position. Once that is comfortable for some sets of ass to grass work, then start working on the racked version, holding the bar with the wrists bent back.

Dan John also writes about the front squat and overhead squat being key lifts; the back squat gets third fiddle.

Dos might also have something to say about this; I believe he is a front squat advocate.

[tossedup]

Chris thanks for the tips on the front squats I will give them a try tonight and see how they feel. I will report back sometime this weekend.

[Chris Correia]

Tossedup: One additional note: per Boyle's progression, once you move to having hands on the bar, the idea is that you've learned to properly rack the weight on the shoulder, and you should continue to rack the weight on the shoulder, even when holding it with your hands/fingers in the bent wrist version. Chest is puffed up, stomach/core tight, keeping elbow up, sit down between your legs.

[tossedup]

Thanks again for the tips Chris. I am going to try them workout after next and do some with the bar on my off days to get the form down.