Weight training and Aging Joints

[RacerBill]

After a series of frustrating incidents I just want to know if what I’m experiencing is normal or what I might to fix the situation. I’m not posting this to elicit sympathy.
Last night I went to the gym, feeling perfectly fine. I had two workouts to go before finishing NROL FL-2. I went through a pre-workout mobility routine, as I always do. I also warmed up with plate squats, then a set of light front squats. Then on the second set of work set front squats, I pulled a tendon my knee. I’ve had some minor tendonitis problems in that knee before, but I thought I’d worked through it.
That’s a pretty minor thing, I realize. BUT here’s my problem:
Since I began lifting in 2004, I have NEVER got completely through a workout plan without some joint pain that’s bad enough to make me stop and take some time off. Never. I get through short break-in plans, but I can never seem to finish an 8 or 6 week plan without an unscheduled break. Granted, only once has it been serious enough to warrant medical attention. Usually it's just ice and some rest.
Is this normal?? Should I just expect this sort of thing because I’m not a kid any more? I hoped that working on mobility would help solve the problem, but it hasn’t seemed to do very much. I know many of you are around my age or older (I’m 41) and I’d like to hear your strategies for avoiding these problems. Thanks.

[I. Kay]

Well certainly age makes things more difficult, but not because of strength... it's because of recovery.

I'd say that if your nutrition and sleep are excellent, but you still end up with these joint issues, you should simply adjust the routines you are on. I know, I know, duh!

But seriously,Cosgrove or Schuler or any of the guys that publish these programs, while they provide great information and guidelines, know perfectly well that, ideally, every program would be tailored to each individual. If you were to do NROL with Cosgrove, I'm betting he'd adjust quite a few things for you, as opposed to someone who was 21, or has different mobility/imbalance issues.

In your case, perhaps you should view these adjustments in terms of days off. If your knee always bothers you with 2 days off between each leg workout, make it 3 days. After all, it's all about results. And if you have to wait an extra week because of knee pain (or stop it all together!), this definitely hinders results far more than giving yourself one extra rest day. Hell, perhaps it's two extra rest days after certain movements. I don't know... but you can find out.

I've found that while specific lifts, progressions and even volumes can be used with most people, recovery periods need to be varied quite a bit.

(Other issues could be form or muscular imbalances. Again, something that would/could be fixed with supervision.)

That's my 2 cents.

[LisaS]

I hear you.
My take (at 4x) is that most of the time I need a different rest/recovery than what is prescribed in some of these programs. I've had a similar experience as you - if I go consistantly for too many weeks, I will be stopped anyway.

I'm hoping that when my weight normalizes and I have a chance to catch up fitness-wise this need to recover more will diminish and I will be able to Mahler-esque in my consistancy. That said, I have to deal with the reality that I have - be it short attention span for routines or a body that can't take consistancy right now.

The next time I start a program, I'm going to try and manage to that expectation - schedule 2-3 days rest between workouts rather than 3/wk schedule - or maybe an entire deload week after 3 weeks. Sure, I'm no longer doing the program as prescribed - but if this keeps me from having to take 2 weeks nearly completely off after 5 weeks - am I not ahead of the game?

[trian2]

RacerBill:

I'm 52 and have been lifting for a number of years.

Yes, regretfully, it may be a situation you may need more recovery time this year than you needed last year. Sometimes it may be your form is off slightly.

But also, and I can only talk for myself, I have found that I should not do certain exercises that aggravate a certain muscle located by my right trap (or something connecting near the shoulder blade). If I exercise after I notice the tickle, it becomes so painful that a slight cough sends strong shooting pains, or something as simple as rolling over in bed is something I do not want to do. And it takes 2 weeks off for it to go away.

I have spent many years learning that you need to work on inbalances and your form. I decided I can either go see a doctor, or see a professional who may be able to decipher my form, or just stop doing those 2 exercises. I decided to just stop doing those 2 specific exercises. There are many other exercises that work the same muscles.

[Mahler]

I guess I am a freak of nature, because none of this bothers me, so I cannot identify with the problem. Ian said most of what I was thinking, but have you thought of using wraps or a knee brace? Also, if you are doing plate squats and front squats for a warm-up, you may be doing too much knee work prior to your heavier work sets. Remember, it's supposed to warm you up not wear you out.

BTW, Alwyn told me once that a good written program can be expected to work for about 67% of those who use it. He has tweaked a few of mine, particularly Strength II. Oh, yeah. He made it harder.

[John Izzo]

The key is knowing your body and correcting any flaws you may have in movement. Assessments are helpful in that a professional can tell you what weakness/tightness/inactive muscles you have that can perpetuate a setback in training. Once you do that, design your own program around the findings.

I'd hate to throw the age thing at you because a part of me doesn't believe that age should become that much of a barrier. Although, I will say this...you haven't been lifting long. Lifting for 3+ years is not enough for your body/joints to be acclimated to the excessive movements and loads that are placed on it thru an intense training program. Lifting is more of a "shock" on your joints, rather than an acustomary stress.

I am 33.

By the age of 23, I suffered a complete pectoral rupture on my Left side. (Basically tore my pec off the humerus bench pressing 315).

By the age of 25, I suffered a hernia helping a friend push a car thru snow.

By 26, I tore my retina with one of those stupid tubing bands. (Flung into my eye-literally blind for days in my left eye. Laser surgery patched it up.)

By the age of 27, I suffered a acromiopasty rotor cuff surgery that pushed my training back 9 months.

It wasn't one event, but the combination of all that taught me about my body..my recovery...my strength...and my determination to get back in it. I had suffered injuries that were seen in guys that have been lifting for 20, 30, 40 years! Most of my injuries occurred when so many of my colleagues were still in junior high! And I was only in my twenties!

But since 2002, I have not (knock on wood) had a joint pain, stabbing pain, or throb since I completely rehabilitated and included movement prep work in my training. I feel stronger and healthier than I did 10 years ago.

My advice to you, put down the book--write you own program around your own abilities and what you know of your body.

[johnst_nhb]

44 and never have problems. One thing I would do is look at the amount and type of warm ups you do prior to lifting. May want to back off some of that and see if it helps.

[tonester]

Just out of curiosity, what training age are you. I'm 52 with a training age of 2. Started getting serious about 2 years ago and banged away on a routine that was more appropriate for someone half my age.

I am presently using Core Performance which utilizes various modalities which I find very helpful at this point in my life. I do this plan 6 days a week, where 2 of those days are for recovery( It also includes prehab and soft tissue/stretch work). It progresses from 2 a week strength and energy work to 4 strength and 6!! sprint days (2 of which are also for recovery). I find that it matches my build up/recovery very nicely. I take a deload every 4th week before moving on to the next phase. By the way, my deload week consists of one of Alwyns bodyweight (no barbell, no problem) workouts (a light version : ). Brilliant!!

I'm not shilling this stuff, just using it as an example of how folks like us should be managing our work to recovery ratios.

Hope this helps.

[jvernacchio]

1. Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate
2. Deep Tissue Message the Area (ART Therapy if you can find one in your area)
3. Ice 20 minutes after the deep tissue message 3 times a day if you can.
4. Acupuncture
5. Fish Oil


These have all worked for me pretty well to reduce inflammation from old and nagging injuries.

[MindPower]

Originally Posted by Mahler

I guess I am a freak of nature,

well, duh

[I. Kay]

Originally Posted by MindPower

well, duh

I second that.

[Lisa~]

Bill, did you have joint issues come up during the program that Danny wrote for you?

And I want to just throw out there that I don't believe it's about age alone. There are young people with issues to work around and there are older people without them. It's just about where you are with your training and what your body has to work with.

[Adam Steer]

There is a coach named Scott Sonnon who likes to say, "you are as old as your connective tissue." His programs, Intu-Flow Joint Health and Mobility and Ageless Mobility, are designed to improve joint health. I use these as part of my active recovery (on "off" days). I am now 36 years old and far less injury prone than I was when I was in my teens and twenties. I've been lifting, in one form or another, since I was in my early teens.

This is obviously only part of the equation, but it has been extremely helpful for me...

Cheers,
Adam

[Lost Dog]

Is it better or worse to blame it on age? Seriously.

Is it always specific areas? I only have a shoulder issue, for instance. Always comes back to the same one. I'm learning what NOT to do, I guess.

I'm as old as you and I've done twice a week workouts, and also done CW's high frequency workouts where I've done up to 6-8 in a week. Plus the cardio stuff. I did run out of time...

There are people at the gym far younger than me who are creaking and moaning all the time, so I don't think it's age. It's genetic, habitual, past-health, and current health related. Also, like others have pointed out, your "training age." Going too fast and hard, too soon could play into it. Not necessarily now, but maybe you did early on. Your muscle and strength growth can easily outpace the supporting tissue (joints and ligaments), if you're not careful.

Also, like training age, maybe there's a some sort of "age" related to how long you've been living healthy again. 5 years of pretty healthy living for me. I don't know how long you've been at it, but it takes time to repair and recover, back there in the background. This last part is just speculation. Talking out loud...

[LWilson212]

Bill-

A few years ago my parents decided they were getting old before their time and they both started working out and lost a lot of weight.

My dad, who is 61 got me into New Rules. He tried to get my mom (57) into it too. She did Break-In and Fat Loss I and then gave up. She said she was just too sore all the time. She would use a foam roller and try to put plenty of recovery in between the workouts, but she said she was limping around all the time and felt awful. She had tried running previously, but gave up with an IT band injury that she went to physical therapy for and still bothers her.

Monday night my dad called and said he has ruptured his distal bicep deadlifting. He went to the doctor and he is going to have to get surgery to repair it. He seems to be taking it very well and is already planning how he will modify his workouts while it heals.

Both my parents feel that when you are taking up getting in shape later in life, you may have to take it a little slower. I would also say both of them underestimate the role of nutrition, particularly protein intake, for recovery.

[RacerBill]

Thanks much, everyone. Some excellent points there.

I probably shouldn't have added the age characterization. Joint pain is pain no matter who gets it. Maybe I just said that because I'm feeling old.

Originally Posted by Lisa~

Bill, did you have joint issues come up during the program that Danny wrote for you?

Oh, good point. The only problem I had there was on the kneeling cable presses. Putting the pressure on my knee on the bare floor (that time it was the left one) felt like I pushed things "out of place" when I stood up. It wasn't bad, and I just did the same motion while standing the next time.

Next up on my training agenda is Danny Plan part 2, so that may well solve the problem.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by RacerBill

Thanks much, everyone. Some excellent points there.

I probably shouldn't have added the age characterization. Joint pain is pain no matter who gets it. Maybe I just said that because I'm feeling old.



Oh, good point. The only problem I had there was on the kneeling cable presses. Putting the pressure on my knee on the bare floor (that time it was the left one) felt like I pushed things "out of place" when I stood up. It wasn't bad, and I just did the same motion while standing the next time.

Next up on my training agenda is Danny Plan part 2, so that may well solve the problem.

I just wanted to point that out because maybe you're just not using programming that's well suited to your body's needs. You know I think highly of NROL, but it's not for everybody in every circumstance. Danny addressed many of your specific concerns. So learn from that experience and either hire him again, hire someone local who can watch you lift, or hire someone else you trust to work with you. Over the course of working with a couple of good trainers, you can begin to learn how to create programs for yourself.