Overcoming DL strain/pain

[canuckguy]

I've been doing DL's for a couple of years now. I think my form is OK, but my DL max lags that of my squat. I'm only good for about 235 on the DL, vs 275 for squats (for 5-8 reps).

I truly enjoy the DL - as someone else noted in another thread, it is one of the purest lifts there is - just pick that weight up of the ground ande put it back down again.

Whenever I try to move the weight up on the DL though, I end up straining my lower back, and am stiff for the next couple of days. As a result, I'm not making much progress.

Any tips or tricks to help me take it to the next level? I don't use a belt or straps, if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

[laxcdn]

Talk to CB, he will help.

[canuckguy]

Didn't you just use that line in another thread?

[hard_rox]

I wonder if a trap bar for DL's would help. You'd definitely be able to concentrate on form without having to worry about banging up your shins or compromising back arch. If I remember correctly though, your Y doesn't have one.

[R]

Do you do any low back work like Good Mornings or RDLs? Could also be a weak posterior chain ie hams, glutes, low back.

What stance/bar placement are you using for your squats? Is it the typical bodybuilder squat or more powerlifter oriented? Is your DL the traditional bent-knee DL or more Sumo style? Do you pull with weight in the heels or balls of the feet?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get some extra info to help figure things out.

Ron

[Craig]

Ron has a great point and some good questions.

HardRox makes a good point about the trap bar as well.

I think the key is you simply need to spend some time under the bar getting strong and building the tissues that support a good deadlift. It might take 6 months, a year, or more for you to see and feel a significant difference. Focusing on all the lifts a good program would include. And then one day, you'll realize, wow, now this is what it feels like to be truly at a stronger level.

I'm serious, you will notice a difference from basic training and time under the bar. Hard to explain, but you'll know it when you achieve it. And then you'll be ready to reach the next level on the strength scale.

Forget about the 1 RM stuff, or the 3 rep stuff. Just get strong. Grip, back, low back, glutes, hamstrings, quadriceps, grip, back, low back, grip and low back.

Do your traditional McGill ab endurance exercises to keep your back as safe as possible, and make sure that you are mobile enough that you can get in the right position. Mobiliity sounds like it might be a problem.

And of course, get a pro to look at your form.

Patience,

craig

[canuckguy]

R - I do GM's & RDL's. I can do 200+ with a BB RDL, and am currently using 2x80 for DB RDLs. My GM's are a lot lighter - around 105.

Squat is usually sumo stance, bar a little lower - more across the shoulder blades than on the shoulders.
I would say that my DL is probably more of a sumo style too. Feet wide and pointed out just a bit; ass back, bar close to the shins. I try to get back on my heels, but probably not as much as I should.

Funny thing is, the pain isn't there so much on the lift, as after I put the bar down.

Craig:
I keep looking for a good program, but all I've got is my All Access Pass - j/k: your programs are great.
I started the year with TT4FL, did a couple of other things through the spring and summer, then hit Barely Legal and now your Holiday Fat Loss program. I think I'll be back into TT4FL come January, as I've still got some serious fat to shed.
Could you elaborate a little bit on "McGill ab endurance exercises"?

[R]

Sounds like posterior chain weakness is the issue then. If you're doing a wider stance squat, odds are good your adductors aren't the problem either.

However, with your RDL being less than 35lbs less than your Sumo DL, my guess is it's a form issue(possibly leaning forward more as oppossed to sinking down...think a powerlifting squat position with the bar held in front instead of on your back). This can put a lot of additional strain on the erectors.

You may want to review your DL form. I believe Dave Tate has some articles with tips on proper form for a good pull. Look at things like what moves first, your hips or upperbody? Are you behind the bar or over the bar at the starting position? Hope some of this helps. Hard to do troubleshooting without seeing it.

Ron

[laxcdn]

If you are doing a sumo squat then you are probably not getting down as far as the DL needs to be. Do you do full squats? CB got me doing sumo in the summer and in some of his routines and in TTfM I am doing full squats. I think doing both sumo and full helped my deads. The sumo got me on the top half of the movement and the full keeps my butt down on the first half of the DL.

[R]

Quick edit...I meant to say..."Sounds like posterior chain weakness ISN'T the issue then".

Ron

[canuckguy]

Thanks guys

[BjsAust]

Simple question, but are you really making sure your back is straight while you do them? Get someone to check your form. When I got back into lifting mine was rounded a bit and I was lifting poorly. My GF picked me up on it, I got my form right and DLs got a hell of a lot easier.

[tGunslinger]

R wrote: Look at things like what moves first, your hips or upperbody?
---------------------

I haven't been deadlifting nearly as long as some other lifts, so which is supposed to move first?

[R]

tGunslinger,

When pulling the DL the hips and shoulders should both move at the same time. However, it is very common to see a lifter raise their hips faster than their shoulders. If you straighten your legs too quickly, you end up pulling the top half of the lift with your lower back (which puts a hell of a lot of stress on it). Conversely, if you pull with your upperbody before your hips, it will naturally place more stress on the lower back in the lower position.

Also, during the locking out phase at the top, it is generally recommended to push the hips forward toward the bar rather than leaning backward, as this will also strain the lower back.