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Old 08-12-2007, 11:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Squat Holds

You squat to parallel with a light weight, say 135 lbs, and stay there, shaking like a leaf for 30 to 60 seconds. My son's college strength coach liked them, too much, he says. They are the reason he runs screaming from the room every time I try to tell him that he should be squatting and dead lifting in addition to his current bench/curl/repeat workout. My question is, "do they have any value, besides instilling toughness, that regular squatting doesn't?"
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds incredibly dangerous and worthless to me. To have somebody in the bottom position of squat, with 135lbs, shaking? I can just see form going to hell and some seriously rounded backs. If you want mental toughness, do a wall squat for time. Or duck walks are another alternative. But BB back squats should be used for dynamic strength and power, not isometric endurance. If he insists on using them, a better option would be to have the athlete hold the contraction against an immovable object, like the safety bars of the rack, it's still an isometric exercise, but at least the athlete is generating force.
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I remember Jeff Oliver and Bjeish Patel doing some research with their athletes at Holy Cross regarding isometric holds leading to more explosive contractions. Again, this is from vague memory, but it was detailed in Mike Boyle's Functional DVD set (1) about 2-3 years ago. I don't know if what your son is doing is a modification of that programming or something the coach dug up.
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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2-3 second pause squats = can be good.

30 second pause squats = waste of time.

Sounds very weird.. I cant see much benifit to that.
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conventional deads
bar x F hahaha
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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John is right that isometric holds are a tried-and-true training method for athletes. Usually, though, you'll see long holds (30-60 seconds) done bodyweight. Martial artists use them (horse stance), gymnasts use them (planche holds, iron cross holds), and most any athlete whose goal is to increase strength without adding mass. We've seen EQIs (eccentric quasi-isometrics) of Buglarian split squats used to increase quad flexibility and EQIs of bodyweight (or lightly weighted) squats used to increase hip and ankle flexibility. (Here's a lower body program, Big Wheels, by Tony Gentilcore that includes isometric holds of this type.) (Crossfit programs sometimes us this type of hold. Here's a discussion: http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/21/19463.html)

Pause squats (also called Functional Isometric squats) are loaded squats held in the bottom position for about 3 seconds. Again, this is a tested and proven method to develop strength. (The study http://nsca.allenpress.com/pdfserv/1...S%3E2.3.CO%3B2 concluded, "It is a legitimate and highly effective mode of strength training, when used in conjunction with full-range, athletic-type lifts and plyometrics." And this study, Functional Isometric Weight Training, concludes, "Since variety is a key to improved performance, alternating between FI [functional isometric] and HW [heavy weight] lifting may help prevent plateauing and subsequently lead to better strength gains.")

Maximal voluntary contractions (usually pressing up against a stationary object, like Jason described) have been proven to increase power (called postactivation potentiation), and these are held the max time the individual can manage. (Here's a study: Influence of Type of Muscle Contraction, Gender, and Lifting Experience on Postactivation Potentiation Performance.)

I think your son's coach is aiming for one of the these training benefits. Without being there or knowing the whole story it's hard to say which one or if he's really off base with the loaded, long hold. If their form is breaking down then the load or length of the hold is inappropriate for sure. The worst thing about this training is that it has turned your son off to squatting in general, and that's a sad result.
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
and most any athlete whose goal is to increase strength without adding mass.
Like wrestlers.... guys who need strength without mass and the ability to stay low in their stance for a seven minute match.

Quote:
Without being there or knowing the whole story it's hard to say which one or if he's really off base with the loaded, long hold.
Just for the record, the strength coach is a she.

Quote:
The worst thing about this training is that it has turned your son off to squatting in general, and that's a sad result.
He's retired now so looking good is more important than any functional benefits from squatting. I've seen the same thing with some of his former athlete friends. Many have been worked extremely hard by college coaches and just don't want to continue at that level of exertion any more. They're young, genetically gifted, still in great shape and still better athletes than almost anyone else they'll compete against. They don't see the need to do the hard exercises, yet. Middle age may provide the motivation to change.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 08-13-2007, 01:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The main problem I see with this is, no way in hell your able to stay tight for more then a couple seconds. Sure, youll be fine with 135lbs, but if you ever progress in the movement, you may run into problems. I wouldn't want to be under 200+lbs of weight while breathing and not being able to stay 100% tight.

I can see it being used with bodyweight (like lisa mentioned) but weighted I dont see the reasoning. Pause squats / isometrics against something I think would be better in most cases.
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Old 08-13-2007, 01:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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When your knees are bent at 90 degrees, aren't they at their most unstable point? Granted, you wouldn't move at that point, but wouldn't it be unsafe to hold more than your bodyweight in that position for more than a few seconds?

I agree with Frank, too. You wouldn't be able to stay tight and hold form for too long, which opens the door for a lot of damage to occur if your form slips.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'll ad a little something here as I actually have some experience with this method. Yielding isometrics (which is what I think is being described here) can definitely have some benefit, but I think the movement you pick is important. I agree with the consensus that doing 30-second holds on the back squat is not the best training tool. The lower back is going to fatigue first (if you have ever tried extended holds with this I think you will find that is true) but not really even in a way that is desirable. I think many others have had success increasing lower back strength-endurance with back extension isometrics or something similar to that. I will say that doing a shorter hold can be great for strength. As mentioned above, pause squats are a great strength builder. Go down, pause for 3-5 seconds and come back up. That is a tried and true method for building strength in the low position and many have increased their squat or broken through a plateau like that.

For extended yielding isometrics, try a single-leg squat with the back foot elevated. You stay in a "safer" position as the trunk is upright so it's really not stressing the back as much and it really works the glutes in addition to the legs. I have had success with doing 20-30 second holds with this exercise, although honestly I cannot say for sure if they were more effective then just traditional repetitions for the same amount of time.
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I totally agree with your comments.

Extended yielding isometrics = EQIs (eccentric quasi-isometrics)
Single-leg squat with the back foot elevated = Bulgarian split squat

We're saying the same thing with different terminology. What you call something often depends on where you originally learned it.
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