I'm in Phase 3 of Ian King's Super Strength - thinking ahead to what to do next and considering Great Guns. I've never done it - something seems to be holding me back from committing 13 weeks to just arms. Anybody done it?
What kind of results? How did the rest of your body respond? What kind of maintenance workout did/can you do, since seemingly everything uses arms?
Yes. Did it twice. Don't think twice about doing it though, if you want to increase size in the arms. It is a GREAT program. Follow it to the letter if you do it, be strict about tempos, discard any concerns about what weights you will be using and get used to being at the 'girl end' of the DB rack and you'll see some nice gains.
First time I gained 1-1/2" on both upper arms, from 14" to 15.5" (I've lost about 1/2" of that recently). Second time, only about 1/4". You can see pics of my arms in my log in the Training subforum. The first time, I actually did about 40% of the program while I was cutting (definitely not recommended) and the balance on maintenance. And still grew, although I should note that I add muscle (and fat) relatively easily.
Maintenance was minimal, targetng legs harder and chest and back and shoulders a little less and with exercises that de-emphasize the arm component (i.e. a lot of flyes).
How are your results from SS? I liked that as well, and had some gains, but not as dramatic as specializing the arms like GG.
Hey Kaiser - Don;t your results kind of fly in the face of what I keep hearing here in the forum? I mean...I haven't looked at the Great Guns work out but from what you said, sounds like it targets arms. I thought that was not the best way to see gains in the arms...I keep hearing...target large muscle groups...legs, back...etc.
So...why does the Great Guns work out add so much to your arms? Were you doing legs - back...etc?
Dont be mistaken. Great Guns works your arms a lot and its specific to them. The idea behind the specific gains programs of Ian Kings is to target one area and maintain or not lose much in the others. So if you do Great Guns you'll get big arms. Your back wont get stronger, your chest wont get bigger and your squat wont improve. However after you're done you can go back to working everything with a beefy big set of guns to take along for the ride.
Jimbo, besides what Ben has mentioned, GG should be done after you have a very solid base and have been lifting for a while. It is for those who want to specialize and get arm hypertrophy, understanding that other areas may suffer or, at best, maintain.
Targting large muscle groups and using compound lifts is the way to go, in general. Certainly for fat loss or even overall hypertrophy. But, again, specialization in any body part will result in gains in that bodypart, in general.
Also, King doesn't tell you to stop working the big muscles (glutes, quads, even pecs), but to perform minimal maintenance on them. So you'll still be working them, just not as hard to avoid CNS overload.
Why does GG work only working the arms? Because it is a high volume specialization program that works the arms through a variety of planes and with a variety of exercises. Exercises which aren't shown in any book that I know. Novelty, along with volume, produces the results. Would it work if you stopped lifting legs? I have no idea, and I imagine it would vary by the individual anyway.
One more thing: there's a chicken and egg syndrome when it comes to lifting. Say you've lifted for a year, and had good gains. It is very well possible that weak supporting muscles could hold your gains in the bigger muscles back as you continue forward. King recognizes this dilemma in many of this programs - TBOM comes to mind. He often has 3 to 6 weeks of working the smaller supporting muscles first so that when they are called upon to perform the big lifts (say bench press) they don't fail before the large muscle groups (say the triceps failing before the pectorals).
Have I confused the issue enough? It's because there isn't a one-size-fits all paradigm you can use for everyone. For those who see their arms lagging behind and have a solid base of lifting experience, GG is a good way to address that issue.
So these kinds of workouts are for targeting/isolating areas that are weak or lacking in size. (probably the same difference)
How does a person recognize weak points? Are weak points always obvious?
For instance - I'm not happy with how much I can bench and wish I could gain more strength. I have made some gains in the last year. I had a 1RM of 135 (embarrassed to say) and now I have a 1RM of around 165. But it's taken a full year to make that gain. Does that seem like a really slow gain? Or is that fairly normal? If that's a slow gain...could it be that I need to focus on my tri's or back or something?
Don't be embarassed man. It's all good. I remember when I couldn't bench 135 to save my life...that's when I was 135lbs total body weight three years ago to add to it. As hard as it is sometimes (ok most of the time) to not notice the big guys lifting tons, just compete with yourself. Just keep pushing your limits you will get there. I'm 165lbs with the same body fat as I was 3 years ago and I'm benching 210 for a max, my goal is 250 in the bench press and I'm still 20-30lbs away from the muscle mass which I desire. Don't you ever give up on yourself.
There are a crap load of articles around here and at t-nation on strengthening your core lifts so all you really have to do is a search, BUT, I'll say this bit of important info. Being a guy in your position and going through serious developement of foundation, make sure you pay attention to muscular and strength balance. What I mean by that is, make sure you can barbell row what you can barbell bench press, etc. I've posted this little article a billion times but I can't help it I love it, http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=487636. Program designed to promote strength and size....and BALANCE. Key factor, especially for us smaller lesser strength trained guys.
Weak points at the point in the game which you are at are going to be pretty much your body as a whole. Make sure you hit everything equally. I wouldn't go into weak point training until I had a solid developed core of strength and a solid core of mass. In other words focus on Back, Chest, Quads, Hams, before the arms, calves, etc. Arms, Calves, Forearms are all getting worked in the process anyway. You're at a fun point in your training, all you have to worry about is lifting a shitload of weight and developing a solid base. Have fun and maybe it wouldn't hurt if you listed what your current routine and nutrition has looked like since you have been lifting so we could help you out even more.
It was my fault Rev. My bad on hijacking the post. Just seems like these discussions "evolve" sometimes. I was asking questions about the Big Guns workout though...so not a total hi jack I hope. I appreciate the info. I will def read the link.
PS - I'm currently in week 2 of MAX-OT. I like it alot. My diet has gotten a lot cleaner..but I HATE logging/journaling. I've always hated paper work of any kind. I may have to break down and start counting clories though. I did fitday for like a week one time but I have improved my diet since then. It's all been a process for me. Constant improvements. My weight has been stable at 172# for like a month. Just seems to have platued so I'm gonna have to do something different with my diet I know...
I've been thinking about this, now I'm speaking purely as a layperson, but whilst I agree with Kaiser that its well worthwhile doing the program, given you're coming straight off a specific program at the moment (for chest/back), I cant help but wonder if doing something like a 12 week program thats more general first might be a good idea before getting into it?
Jimbo, not sure what program you are on. I have good gains with heavy weight and low reps. I was on a pyramid work out and lost strength (it felt). I also just started doing super sets again, wow what a smoker but my strength has increased, only my 3rd week on the program I started and already gained 3 lbs (and passed the mirror test). IMO that will help you gain mass and strength>> heavy and low reps.
REMEMBER THAT HEAVY IS A WORD ---- NOT A NUMBER!!!
I mean...I haven't looked at the Great Guns work out but from what you said, sounds like it targets arms. I thought that was not the best way to see gains in the arms...I keep hearing...target large muscle groups...legs, back...etc.
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