The fix? Increase your calories and your carb intake methodically. If you're dieting with a chronic and severe deficit and/or are super-lean, incorporate frequent carb-based refeeds.
How do you know when to incorporate these carb-based refeeds though? Is there a certain general guideline you follow as your body fat gets lower? If your a woman and under 16% does that mean you should refeed once a week, but a woman between 16% and 20% should refeed once every two weeks? Purely a hypothetical example, of course, but is there an accepted "suggestion" to how often one should refeed or is it just a process of trial and error for each individual?
How do you know when to incorporate these carb-based refeeds though? Is there a certain general guideline you follow as your body fat gets lower? If your a woman and under 16% does that mean you should refeed once a week, but a woman between 16% and 20% should refeed once every two weeks? Purely a hypothetical example, of course, but is there an accepted "suggestion" to how often one should refeed or is it just a process of trial and error for each individual?
It's going to be very dependent on individual results.
Typically the more extreme the deficit, the more frequent you'd want the refeeds, but this is also dependent on body fat levels.
Women in particular seem to do better with more frequent refeeds, but less total carbs at each, and may benefit from much more frequent "breaks" from dieting, as in every 2-4 weeks, rather than the suggested 6-8 for men.
Really the only way to gauge it in a practical sense is to diet until you get to a point of extreme hunger, lack of energy and fatigue, etc. Though I'd likely not let it get to that point before incorporating refeeding.
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I PMed powerman, and told him that i remember him from the rugged days.
U R teh KOOOOOL!!!!!
Bros 4 EVAH!
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
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"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
I've used the template very recently, modified slightly, to bring two figure girls into show condition.
The first took 4th in her comp, but the caveat being that she'd drastically improved body composition from her last show which was in November of '06.
The second girl took first in two categories and 2nd overall in the show.
It wasn't the standard UD2 model, however. I modified activity levels on the depletion days, shortened the carb load and lessened the total amount of carbs, and altered the "normal eating" weekend days as well.
In some instances it's not appropriate for use, and for females especially modification might be called for, however on the average those I've seen use it (when called for, ie to go beyond "normal" levels of leanness without resorting to drugs) and dial it in based on feedback (this is key) have used it to success.
I am female & intending on starting UD2 in the coming weeks for about a 12 week run (with a 2 week break in there to avoid 8+ consecutive cycles). I want to ask some questions of you! I expect to make many adjustments in the first few cycles, but would obviously like to try hitting the nail on the head the first time, as much as possible...
How did you modify activity on depletion days? Lyle says to avoid dropping calories beyond 1200, adding aerobics to create the 50% deficit as required, so as it stands, I was intending on doing 1200 cals + 1 hour of aerobics on Days 1 and 2. Then, 1 hour of fasted walking in the AM on Days 3 and 4.
How did you modify the carb load? I was intending on following the carb load to the T, but sticking with the lower end of the range (5.5g carb per lb of LBM versus 5.7g/lb). Did you have your girls start the carb load on the evening of the tension workout and end mid-day the following day instead of going the full 30 hours?
How did you modify "normal" days? I was intending on doing a fairly low-carb approach a la Berardi's PN/10 habits (no starchy carbs unless PWO, and there aren't any workouts slotted for those 2 days).
Also, did your girls creatine load during the carb load? Did they take an EC stack?
I am going to go into the diet following the book, but by the sounds of it, I will need to make a number of modifications to make it work for me, a genetically challenged female, sooner than later. It is quite difficult to track down successful female cases on Lyle's forums.. the few that have tried have quit the diet prematurely, from what I've seen.
I did 7 cycles of UD2 and was very successful. I made no modifications to it.
-- I started at the high end for the carb load and ended in the middle.
-- I did the depletion, tension, and power workouts, as prescribed
-- I did creatine only on tension and power workout days
-- I did not do the EC stack
-- On low cal/carb days, I was at about 1100. Note that Lyle has not stated that staying at 1200 is not necessary as long as protein levels are met.
I am female & intending on starting UD2 in the coming weeks for about a 12 week run (with a 2 week break in there to avoid 8+ consecutive cycles). I want to ask some questions of you! I expect to make many adjustments in the first few cycles, but would obviously like to try hitting the nail on the head the first time, as much as possible...
I'll parrot Lyle here. Keep the adjustments minimal on your first run through.
Quote:
How did you modify activity on depletion days? Lyle says to avoid dropping calories beyond 1200, adding aerobics to create the 50% deficit as required, so as it stands, I was intending on doing 1200 cals + 1 hour of aerobics on Days 1 and 2. Then, 1 hour of fasted walking in the AM on Days 3 and 4.
Keep the aerobics lower intensity. Seriously. You're in a huge deficit as it is, and the depletion workouts, if done correctly, are the most terrible thing on the planet. You're gonna burn yourself into the ground with excess aerobic activity. I'd cut it out entirely and let the deficit do the work for you.
I'm going to parrot Alan Aragon now. Try to get the most results with a minimum of effort. I know, heresy for Type-A fitness folks, but seriously. If you blow your cache of plateau-busting strategies (extra cardio, for example) in the first few weeks, you have nothing to draw on if progress slows.
Quote:
How did you modify the carb load? I was intending on following the carb load to the T, but sticking with the lower end of the range (5.5g carb per lb of LBM versus 5.7g/lb). Did you have your girls start the carb load on the evening of the tension workout and end mid-day the following day instead of going the full 30 hours?
Don't be too obsessive with the timing of the carb load. Just get the carbs in within a reasonable amount of time post tension workout. Don't try to draw it out is what I'm saying. And there may be some benefit to truncutuating the carb load so most of your energy is injested close to the end of the workout.
Quote:
How did you modify "normal" days? I was intending on doing a fairly low-carb approach a la Berardi's PN/10 habits (no starchy carbs unless PWO, and there aren't any workouts slotted for those 2 days).
That sounds fine. Beware the high fat content of some of the Gourmet Nutrition meals. It can send your kcal for the day skyrocketing.
Quote:
Also, did your girls creatine load during the carb load? Did they take an EC stack?
I'm all for the creatine (and yes, have it with your carb load), not so convinced with the EC. It's not as effective as one would think. Over an 8 week period, Shekelle and colleagues found that EC vs. placebo contributed an additional short-term fat loss of 0.9kg/month. Key here is short-term. Based on the research, EC doesn't encourage additional fat loss so much as it expedites the fat loss processes. So if you're comfortable with a verified 2.2 to 3.6 increase in the of odds psychiatric, autonomic, and cardiac abnormalities developing, more power to you.
That said, caffeine alone can give you a lot of the appetite suppressing/energy boosting benefits of a stim without the jitters of E. Anecdotally, I've found Green Tea to help out a lot in major caloric deficits. Coffee tends to make me irritable and anxious.
Quote:
I am going to go into the diet following the book, but by the sounds of it, I will need to make a number of modifications to make it work for me, a genetically challenged female, sooner than later. It is quite difficult to track down successful female cases on Lyle's forums.. the few that have tried have quit the diet prematurely, from what I've seen.
It's all in the depletion workouts. When I did my CKD stint a a few years back, carb load efficacy positively correlated with the quality of the depletion workouts.
I am female & intending on starting UD2 in the coming weeks for about a 12 week run (with a 2 week break in there to avoid 8+ consecutive cycles). I want to ask some questions of you! I expect to make many adjustments in the first few cycles, but would obviously like to try hitting the nail on the head the first time, as much as possible...
Well firstly, you'll see that the mods I made were specifically for competitors trying to get in show condition. If you're just doing it to do it, then follow the directions in the book.
The mods I made were specifically for the purpose of maximizing fat loss and less emphasis on the recomp function it's normally for.
Quote:
I am going to go into the diet following the book, but by the sounds of it, I will need to make a number of modifications to make it work for me, a genetically challenged female, sooner than later. It is quite difficult to track down successful female cases on Lyle's forums.. the few that have tried have quit the diet prematurely, from what I've seen.
Well first and foremost, and I can't say this enough, you need to be unusually lean for this diet to work properly.
If you are not, while it won't be a waste of time, you'll still be slowing down fat loss compared to what you could do with less structured diets.
Secondly, I don't post on the nice forum so I have no idea who posts there, but on the mean forum I'd suggest looking up Natalia and Fet, who have both had very good results from UD2. Those are two off the top of my head.
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Really great diet I got down from about 14% to about 9% in about 8 weeks following it to the letter. I was tanked pre and post so its about as accurate as I could get for verification.
The depletion days are hell.
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Really great diet I got down from about 14% to about 9% in about 8 weeks following it to the letter. I was tanked pre and post so its about as accurate as I could get for verification.
I actually start to enjoy the depletion days by the 2nd or 3rd week, once I've adapted to the higher rep ranges and it's not so painful. It's actually the carb load that I find most uncomfortable.
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didn't care for it for bulking. It's more mental than any actual legitimate, well thought out argument. On the fat loss you have an end game and you're busting your balls and it's hard but you make progress and it feels like you're earning your fat loss. On the bulk there isn't an end point really (for me anyway) and it seemed more inconvenient and un-necessary vs. not eating stupid amounts.
and it seemed more inconvenient and un-necessary vs. not eating stupid amounts.
That's what I'm thinking.. All that carb loading, depletion WO, etc. rather than just eating at a surplus and doing a non-retarded weight training program (SS, etc)..
But Lyle does make a good argument as to the best way to go about calorie partitioning to maximize muscle gain, so I dunno..
Did you try to bulk that way, or did you just dismiss it as undesirable after going through the Hell of the UD 2.0 diet regimen?
Ive done several bulking cycles and did several variations of it to incorporate my olympic lifting and specialization of the upper body. It worked but it was also a lot of work. After a few rounds, I did decide to move on and just do a moderate surplus on training days and maintenance on off days. The results have been constant and upward so no regrets, but Ive def done enough UD2 to not want to do it for a while.
I do miss those refeeds though. They were epic.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
That's what I'm thinking.. All that carb loading, depletion WO, etc. rather than just eating at a surplus and doing a non-retarded weight training program (SS, etc)..
But Lyle does make a good argument as to the best way to go about calorie partitioning to maximize muscle gain, so I dunno..
Did you try to bulk that way, or did you just dismiss it as undesirable after going through the Hell of the UD 2.0 diet regimen?
tried it.
Bottom line (for me) is that you're not going to gain muscle as fast as you can lose fat if you're really pushing hard no matter what you do. If everything you do is absolutely perfect you're going to gain X amount of lean mass that week. If you eat some ice cream you're going to gain X -.00046% that week.
The stress and ass pain for 2-3% better results weren't worth it to me.
Linear Mode
