High pulls, "higher" reps? - JP Fitness Forums

karky · 06-09-2007, 08:51 AM

So, when doing olympic pulls, ive always kept to tripples, doubles and singles.
Since its power movements, performance drops pretty fast if you go higher than 3 reps, right? Though, i read here http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1175186 that with pulls you can hit a bit higher reps, like 5 reps per set, since they are not as demanding on the CNS as full cleans/snatches and power cleans/snatches. So ive always wanted big traps, and was thinking maybe doing some "higher" rep high snatch pulls might benifit me? maybe like 5x5 or something.

igunick · 06-09-2007, 09:11 AM

I wouldn't do them with more then 3 reps.
But then again, I don't care about muscle mass.

If you want bigger traps, eat more :p
Traps are involved in lotst of compounds so I wouldn't do exercises just for them.

karky · 06-09-2007, 09:19 AM

i wont do the snatches just for them, as they work alot of muscles, but i just thought, 5x5 will give me strenght and power from them, but at the same time maybe a bit more stimulation towards gaining some size..
And i do eat, but i just get fatter instead of bigger :p

OldGuy · 06-09-2007, 09:27 AM

NROL HT 1 has high pulls in 5, 10 and 15 rep ranges. The higher rep ranges are challenging.

Matthew · 06-09-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy

NROL HT 1 has high pulls in 5, 10 and 15 rep ranges. The higher rep ranges are challenging.

The 15 rep sets nearly killed me.

The deadlift+shrug is the one exercise that had the most effect on my trap size, I think that was in HT1 as well.

Karky, why do you want bigger traps? Do you feel they're disproportionately small? Or do you just want bigger traps for the sake of having bigger traps?

karky · 06-09-2007, 10:07 AM

im no expert on proportiones. But i think they might be a bit smaller than they should be compared to the rest of me, and well, i do also want big traps just for the sake of having it. Looking like a powerful man has always been my "looks" goal.

Matthew · 06-09-2007, 05:00 PM

They're not smaller than they should be compared to the rest of you. Your goal is to get stronger/more powerful, right? Stick to that goal. Don't think about anything else.

From Dos' blog:

Quote:

High Rep Olympic lifting - This came from a friend of mine who is an asst. at a high profile college program (no, I'm not going to say where...). The new head strength coach over there has the athletes doing "Hypertrophy sets" of Olympic lifts like cleans and snatches. First off, the purpose of the Olympic lifts IS NOT hypertrophy! Sure, you can get hypertrophy in certain bodyparts from training with them but, in general, the primary purpose is the development of explosive power . Doing 3 sets of 10-12 reps on power cleans are not only counter-productive to your power development, it is flat-out dangerous simply due to the fact that these are technical lifts.

karky · 06-10-2007, 03:58 AM

yeah i know that, just the guy said it was an exception when you are talking about just the pulls, high pulls low pull, etc. because you dont catch.

igunick · 06-10-2007, 04:29 AM

catching is not the explosive part, the pulling is (especially high pulling).

karky · 06-10-2007, 04:38 AM

i dident say catching is the explosive part.

Quote:

And get this: pulls are also much less demanding on the nervous system than full or modified Olympic lifts. This allows you to safely perform more reps (up to five per set) compared to the classical lifts where any more than three is usually overkill and leads to technical breakdown.

These higher rep sets allow for increased hypertrophy potential in all the muscles that count. A casual look at any accomplished Olympic lifter illustrates great development in the posterior chain muscles (erectors, glutes, hams, and calves) as well as the traps. Pulls are also significantly easier to learn than their classical counterparts, so no more excuses of how technical and complex the Olympic lifts are.

thats what he says about it in the article.

igunick · 06-10-2007, 05:23 AM

so do deadlifts

Lisa~ · 06-10-2007, 07:48 AM

Read The Power Look from Christian Thibaudeau (old CT, before he went bald and bodybuilder, lol). I think this is just what you're looking for.

I've got no problem with using jump shrugs or high pulls for higher reps. Alwyn uses them for their metabolic contribution to the workout. CT is using six-rep sets in the above article for hypertrophy. High pulls can be used for varying goals.

Matthew · 06-10-2007, 12:37 PM

Sorry, I must have forgotten the 5x5 part in your original post. Five reps is fine, I don't consider that to be "high". I'd even do 5 reps of cleans/snatches, and have without a problem (although, I don't exactly have perfect form to begin with).
The quote I posted suggested not to do sets of 10-12 of the o-lifts. I related that to high pulls, it's a power movement and there's more technique involved than, say, shrugs. You only want to do 5 reps, so either way this is irrelevant to your situation.

Have you been doing the snatches/powercleans? How has that worked out for you?

karky · 06-10-2007, 12:55 PM

snatches and powercleans have been working well, good progress espechally on the power cleans. Power snatches have started to slow down though, i will be replacing them with high snatch grip pulls to see how that works out.

Frank.S · 06-10-2007, 04:56 PM

Heavy deads/rack pulls will likely give you all the traps you ever need. Once you can pull 500lbs for reps, youll have a power-look to you

Also, throw in some farmers walks now and again.

Lost Dog · 06-10-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Heavy deads/rack pulls will likely give you all the traps you ever need. Once you can pull 500lbs for reps, youll have a power-look to you

Also, throw in some farmers walks now and again.

Those would be more for an incidental power-look. With those lifts, you're purely working your traps isometrically. If you want to build the muscle faster, you'll need to do something to actively use those muscles.

Here's some new CT. Bald and ripped, I'm afraid...

6 New Exercises For New Muscle!

Check out the Muscle Clean & Push Press and Overhead DB Shrugs.

Chris Correia · 06-10-2007, 05:36 PM

Wouldn't any of the points raised by people here and the linked articles simply depend on the load?

If you're doing the really high reps for metabolic ramp up or hypertrophy purposes, such as in NR, then the load isn't heavy enough such that power development is not really going to happen. It's also not heavy enough such that there is any concern about form break down or technique problems.

If you're working for power, and working at a certain %RM, then when form breaks down depends to some extent on the load. Lighten up a bit and a set of 5 can be fine, and still lead to some power development. However, a bit heavier load will give better power development, but also be too heavy to do more than, say, 3 reps.

It seems it depends on load and goal.

Also, "technical" breakdown is a relative term. A true Oly lifter is going to be paying attention to many more fine points and the exact execution of the lift than a footballer doing power versions of the lift. Granted, load and form still matter, but the general athlete training is not lifting according to the same level of technicality as the oly lifter.

gobbla · 06-11-2007, 12:26 AM

I'm with Chris. A lot of this is relative and IMO based on a flawed concept (Use an O-lifter type lift because they have big traps). The form is going to dictate a lot of factors. If you're doing it from a standing strait back then it's not a power movement...at all, do as many reps as you want. If you're doing it from a hang then keep it at 6 or under. If you're doing it from the floor then 3 or less.

If you're already doing O-lifts and aren't an O-lifter why would you want to mimic a movement to hypertrophy? If your goal with the movement is to get "big" then load the bar with some sick weight and do shrugs (or rack pulls or farmer carries).