Ankle mobility

[Alcoholiday]

what are good ways to improve ankle mobility and to remedy tight calves? I always see it mentioned, but never answers on how to improve them.

[Cynic]

I used Bill Hartman's technique he showed on the video for ankle mobility and that helps me.

Search for "Bill Hartman" on youtube. He's got only the one (you need to get out there more Bill), so it'll be easy to find.

[Clemson]

The Anatomy Trains, SMF, Self Mobs is ok but some of the work from other coaches that is in warm-ups is simply better as tension from pushing the knee forward is ok for people that just workout for fitness but athletes training hard don't respond as well.

[Matthew]

Isn't there stuff in Magnificent Mobility?
I think as long as you're doing other ground-based mobility stuff, you'll be fine.

Hope you don't mind if I add a question.
How would one know that ankle mobility is the problem? I mean, say you're watching your client squat. What faults are give-aways that they have poor ankle mobility?

[Clemson]

Currently I am looking at roughly 800 + exercises with various tweaks...I don't like corrective/prehab stuff as the loading doesn't unwind the restrictions as much as integrated movements.

MM is not the only direction and people need to see DVDs as stoking fires of concepts. 12 movements is a great starting place for people that don't do anything but what about year 3?

Perhaps Marvelous Mobility will be out and show some other options and progressions. Variety is important to progress and challenge.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Isn't there stuff in Magnificent Mobility?

I don't think there is actually.

Hope you don't mind if I add a question.
How would one know that ankle mobility is the problem? I mean, say you're watching your client squat. What faults are give-aways that they have poor ankle mobility?

Inability to dorsiflex the ankle sufficiently to get low. You'll see them come up on their toes. If they can get into a low squat position with their heels elevated (as a test, not an exercise), then you know it's the ankles and not the hips. But sometimes you'll be dealing with immobility in both places.

You could also test them with the ankle mobility drills in Bill Hartman's video. The test IS the drill; so if you have ankle mobility issues, do those drills as part of your warm-up before lifting and/or with your stretching program at night. Also find a time to do the related soft-tissue work.

In Bulletproof Knees, Mike Robertson goes through the same drill Bill demonstrates, but he also does two more. One is the same drill but with the toes elevated on a 2x4. The other moves your knee out to each side.

If you need more ankle mobility, then it's usually beneficial to also increase dorsiflexion strength with movements like DB dorsiflexion (or use a DARD device if your gym has one).

[coach hale]

i have a ankle jumpstretch band routine i use with clients
includes working ankle in various movement patterns flexion, extension, inversion, eversion

attach band to ankle sit further away from attachment increase resistance

also wall squats moving feet closer to wall with each squat (excellent for hips as well)

squats with toes elevated
keep back straight flex knees once you begin lose angle of back position terminate depth (bulgarian olfiters use this often)

thanks
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com

[Sign]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

I don't think there is actually.


Inability to dorsiflex the ankle sufficiently to get low. You'll see them come up on their toes. If they can get into a low squat position with their heels elevated (as a test, not an exercise), then you know it's the ankles and not the hips. But sometimes you'll be dealing with immobility in both places.

You could also test them with the ankle mobility drills in Bill Hartman's video. The test IS the drill; so if you have ankle mobility issues, do those drills as part of your warm-up before lifting and/or with your stretching program at night. Also find a time to do the related soft-tissue work.

In Bulletproof Knees, Mike Robertson goes through the same drill Bill demonstrates, but he also does two more. One is the same drill but with the toes elevated on a 2x4. The other moves your knee out to each side.

If you need more ankle mobility, then it's usually beneficial to also increase dorsiflexion strength with movements like DB dorsiflexion (or use a DARD device if your gym has one).

I was doing the test Bill showed in the video. What is a good amount of flexion? ie. Haw far on average should you be able to keep your foot from the wall and still touch your knee to the wall?

[Lost Dog]

My ankle mobility is absolute crap from very tight calves. Even after tons of stretching and Bill's mobility drills, it's still bad. There's no way it's worth putting in that kind of time to be able to squat without a raised heal. How bad is it to squat that way?

The majority of my squatting (higher reps) is Zercher or goblet squats. I can do those flat footed because of the huge ass counterbalance. It's just when I want to go a little heavier. It hurts to Zercher 225lbs.

[Kevin Larrabee]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

My ankle mobility is absolute crap from very tight calves. Even after tons of stretching and Bill's mobility drills, it's still bad. There's no way it's worth putting in that kind of time to be able to squat without a raised heal. How bad is it to squat that way?

The majority of my squatting (higher reps) is Zercher or goblet squats. I can do those flat footed because of the huge ass counterbalance. It's just when I want to go a little heavier. It hurts to Zercher 225lbs.

Do you use a tennis ball or a lacross ball when doing soft tissue work on your calves?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Kevin Larrabee

Do you use a tennis ball or a lacross ball when doing soft tissue work on your calves?

Tennis ball. Far more agressively than in that video, too. Still bad.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

There's no way it's worth putting in that kind of time to be able to squat without a raised heal. How bad is it to squat that way?

That's an interesting question and I wish I had a strong, definitive answer for you. Does it hurt your knees to squat with a raised heel? Does it shift your center of gravity forward? If I was your trainer, I'm not sure if I'd just load up your front squat and forget about back squatting or if I'd try to work your back squat lower and lower over time. When you make the decision, consider your goals. Why do you want to go heavier with the Zerchers? Can you achieve the same results with a different movement and less load? If you can do goblet and Zercher squats, you can do front squats, right? you're also doing some heavy single-leg work, aren't you? Are these movements not meeting your goals?

I found the following from Mel Siff on using progressively lower blocks under the heels to teach a full depth squat. I thought you might find it interesting.

Squats and Heel Blocks

Planks or blocks of the typical thickness used under the heels during
squatting have a far more pronounced effect on leverages and location of
component forces acting on the body than on the typical EMGs recorded from
the extensors or flexors of the knee and hip. Any changes also depend on
the depth of the squat, foot spacing and rate of descent and ascent used by
the individual.

Higher blocks tend to increase the patello-femoral force. This may be
counteracted to a certain degree by using the well-known powerlifting
strategy of pushing the buttocks backwards, instead of allowing the knees to
thrust strongly forwards.

There are several ways of increasing the depth of one's squat:

1. Use progressively thinner blocks to gradually squat deeper and deeper
over a period of several weeks or months. Later, one can even use planks
under the balls of the feet to take one's flexibility even further (for many
years I have used this corrective strategy with weightlifters who tend to
lean forwards during the dip phase of the jerk - or had them curl the toes
upwards to achieve the same effect).

2. Squat as far down as you can without heel planks without weights, then
shift your feet a small distance apart and try again. Squat depth will invariably increase and this process may be continued until you can full
squat without blocks. This strategy, however, can place increased stress on
the leg adductors (which sometimes is not a bad thing, since this largely
eliminates the need for specialised leg adduction exercises).

So, you can do deep squats with a wide foot spacing, then gradually work your
feet closer until they are about shoulder width apart - and thus you can
quite easily achieve the desired deep squat position. Begin without weights
and progressively add more resistance in controlled movements without
pronounced forward body lean.

3. Squat as far down as you can without heel planks without weights, then
add light weights and gently allow the added load to force you into a
slightly deeper squat. Use a standard progressive loading method over the
weeks to force you into a comfortable low squat position. Holding the lowest
squat position for a quasi-isometric stretch is important - one can even do
gentle up and down ballistic oscillations about this low position to enhance
range of movement safely (for those who have doubts about this ballistic
method, consult Basmajian 'Muscles Alive').

I have found all of the above methods to be highly successful, even with some
older men who could not squat as far as thighs parallel to the ground, yet
after a few months of using these strategies at least twice a week, they have
eventually managed to do overhead squats (snatch style) and full squat
snatches without knee injury.

Interestingly, three of these older men, a Masters tennis player, a former
sprinter and a bodybuilder had all been receiving physio treatment for more
than 3 months to resolve knee pain (chondromalacia patellae or peripatellar
pain syndrome) and were warned against any form of squatting. Instead they
had to do the usual isokinetic knee extensions to little avail - one even
used transdermal anti-inflammatory patches to handle the pain.

After following the above strategies, all of them managed to do full range
squats without pain or any medical treatment and return to fairly vigorous
competition, so, at least in their case, full range, pain-free squatting
(with something like 50% more than bodyweight) not only became possible, but
it enabled them to improve on previous sporting achievements without further
recourse to medical treatment. Obviously, the use of such methods should be
done carefully and intelligently on the basis of a good understanding of the
underlying pathology and medical feedback, but the potential rewards can be
great.

So, don't discard any exercise out of hand, discard any method of doing that
exercise which may be causing the problem.

Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...g/message/4136

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

That's an interesting question and I wish I had a strong, definitive answer for you. Does it hurt your knees to squat with a raised heel? Does it shift your center of gravity forward? If I was your trainer, I'm not sure if I'd just load up your front squat and forget about back squatting or if I'd try to work your back squat lower and lower over time. When you make the decision, consider your goals. Why do you want to go heavier with the Zerchers? Can you achieve the same results with a different movement and less load? If you can do goblet and Zercher squats, you can do front squats, right? you're also doing some heavy single-leg work, aren't you? Are these movements not meeting your goals?

No. No pain at all. It doesn't appear to shift my center of gravity forward. I get the same amount of lean, either way. I just don't fall backwards.

Not true about the front squat and zercher. With the Zercher, you're actually pulling the bb backward, leaning way back to counterbalance the weight. If you do that with front squats, you'd fall backward. The goblet squat is somewhere in between. But, it's really hard to hold that kind of weight in your hands, up at chest level.

I don't really know what my goals are, Lisa. Not as far as my legs go. It's mostly not feeling as strong with quads vs hips. 405 DL but 225 squat. My legs aren't huge (considering I'm 185lbs and 6'1"), but they are in proportion to the rest of me.

I've been going heavier on single leg work, you're right.

What do I lose by dropping heavy squats?

Originally Posted by Lisa~

I found the following from Mel Siff on using progressively lower blocks under the heels to teach a full depth squat. I thought you might find it interesting.

This is a good list of tips. I've done some of them and managed to do okay with sumo squats, but it's not until I get a good amount of weight pushing me down that I can go parallel. Obviously there's some hip flexibility in the way, too.

Can't get past these calves, though.

[Clemson]

I had two biomechanists test the ankle mob series and found the force to be too little to make a big impact with very restricted athletes....not a fan of that method.

[Jean-Paul]

Clemson, are you talking about the flexion, extension, inversion, eversion drills? I use those as well, although I usually integrate it with some kind of activity like dragging or picking up a damp towel (and I include towel "push-aways") for high reps (feet don't so much need strength as endurance).

I don't do these with all clients as a prehab method though. I specifically use it on clients that I have done a Motion DNA biomechanical analysis on where the test indicates lower leg or foot weakness. The injuries rarely show up at the feet. Weak feet or feet that have no endurance typically show up as compensations somewhere else, like the hips.

I agree that not everyone with a tight muscle needs a "release", like a mobility drill or soft tissue release of some sort. Weakness usually disguises itself as tightness, and increasing mobility at the joint can simply aggravate the problem. Sometimes it's just better to strengthen or stabalize (static resistance vs mobility drill).

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

That's an interesting question and I wish I had a strong, definitive answer for you. Does it hurt your knees to squat with a raised heel? Does it shift your center of gravity forward? If I was your trainer, I'm not sure if I'd just load up your front squat and forget about back squatting or if I'd try to work your back squat lower and lower over time. When you make the decision, consider your goals. Why do you want to go heavier with the Zerchers? Can you achieve the same results with a different movement and less load? If you can do goblet and Zercher squats, you can do front squats, right? you're also doing some heavy single-leg work, aren't you? Are these movements not meeting your goals?

If you look at o lifters, they all squat w/ elevated heels. Strongmen wear oly shoes as well b/c they can do deep squats better, and, a lot of them say that doing deep front squats w/ oly shoes is a lot easier than flat shoes.

They also say that it's a lot easier to put the weight on your heels by using an elevated heel on front squats.

So i don't know. i think squatting w/ elevated heels is good. I think any way that allows you to squat, pain free is a good thing, be it zerchers or goblet squats...