I need some people to enlighten me on the things I'm going to talk about. One thread on here made me think about the fads found in the fitness industry. The most recent one that comes to mind is a quirky "Postural" fad. With that, the other fads I've noticed is rubber bands (a.k.a. stretch bands), kettlebells; medicine (or swiss or balance) balls, electrode stimulation, vibration training, or the "Fat Burning Zone" (the chart and shit that people use when doing steady state cardio involving your heart rate).
Now I'm not a fool and won't spend a whole post saying that these fads were/are stupid and the related. Rather, I would like to know something. If you have used one, more, or all of those-Kettlebells, Medicine or Balance Balls, Rubber Bands, Postural Training, Electrode Stimulation, Vibration, or "Fat Burning Zone", then I have some questions.
-------------------------------------------------------
If your goal was hypertrophy:
How many inches did you gain on specific body parts and in what amount of time did it take you to achieve it (e.g. Using a routine based on kettlebells and Swiss Balls, I gained a half inch on my biceps in five weeks)?
If your goal was fat loss:
What was your body fat percentage before and after, and how long did it take you to achieve the result?
How many inches on your waist did you lose, and in what amount of time did it take you to achieve it?
If your goal was speed, strength, and/or endurance:
Did the amount of weight you do can do for 1 rep increase and if so, how long did it take to achieve the result?
Did your muscular endurance increase and if so, how long did it take to achieve the result?
If trying to increase sprint speed, was your speed higher after using the aforementioned techniques, and if so, in what amount of time did you achieve the result?
If trying to increase endurance speed and/or length, did the aforementioned techniques increase it, and if so, how long did it take to achieve the result?
I will be suprised if any of this gets answered, but it's a worth a shot. With kettlebells, I won't be suprised if someone actually does give out some positive results they recieved from using them. As for everything else...
By using bands, I increased my max squat. Who knows if it had anything to do with the bands, but the training while using them did brind my squat up significantly.
So many fads out there I agree, this recent posture thing is nuts, or my favorite, the whole 'Fast Carbs PWO' thing.
By using bands, I increased my max squat. Who knows if it had anything to do with the bands, but the training while using them did brind my squat up significantly.
That's another thing that keeps my skepticism. The majority don't know if it was thing or another, since training is a culmination of exercises. Then again, you could find out what causes what if you do the same exercises, find the results, and then add in bands, and see what any extra results you can get.
* How many inches did you gain on specific body parts and in what amount of time did it take you to achieve it (e.g. Using a routine based on kettlebells and Swiss Balls, I gained a half inch on my biceps in five weeks)?
Muscle gain and size isn't just relative to equipment, it is also relative to nutrition in use of that equipment. Give a guy a log and excess calories and he can grow.
Quote:
If your goal was fat loss:
* What was your body fat percentage before and after, and how long did it take you to achieve the result?
* How many inches on your waist did you lose, and in what amount of time did it take you to achieve it?
Same principal as above. Give a guy a log and take away calories and he will lose.
I am not going to keep going. I get what you are saying, why all the "fads".
If you can honestly say that improving postural movement isn't going to help you increase your squat, then I am not even going to waste my time.
The simple truth is that balance and mobility training incorporated with your goals (be it fat loss, muscle gain, etc) primarily leads to less injury and better performance and function. To me this spells that you will be in the game longer, in less pain and making improvements faster because you aren't setting down on your 2nd set of lunges because you knee hurts.
Do you need a kettlebell to grow inches? No, of course not.
Does kettlebell training invite the use of more stabilizers and increase the balance challenge of a workout? Yes.
If someone is used to doing bicep curls in a squat rack, then is kettlebell work going to whoop their tail more? Damn right.
The simple truth is that balance and mobility training incorporated with your goals (be it fat loss, muscle gain, etc) primarily leads to less injury and better performance and function. To me this spells that you will be in the game longer, in less pain and making improvements faster because you aren't setting down on your 2nd set of lunges because you knee hurts.
Good points. However; I believe that balance is a derivative of specific maximal strength (e.g. once you reach a specific level of leg strength, you can do one-legged squats-an exercise that incorporates balance, yet that doesn't mean that a powerlifter could do one). What is your opinion?
Then again I try my best to not include the general public into the equation-something of which I should've stated. My apologies. Also, I want to make clear that there are those that need such corrective exercises (but once again that concerns mainly the general public), and I have nothing against that. I consider it a "fad" to those who don't need it.
It just annoys me to hear that kettlebells to bands to swiss balls are some type of miracle to your exercise regimen. I'm sure everyone can understand.
*I forgot to add that in my original post that all the questions should be answered with nutrition having been the control group, thus leaving any changed results stemming from the use of the supposed "fads".
I have yet to meet anyone, be it normal, athlete, or other that doesn't have an issue in posture, proprioception, or muscle activation. In fact, athletes sometimes are the worst perpetrators of this.
Besides Leigh's points, it's a simple matter of length-tension: poor arthrokinematics and delayed muscle firing will directly lead to weaknesses in the kinetic chain...I've fixed people's movement and seen strength increases jump almost immediately (within weeks).
So when are you coming to Jersey to help me out? My back twinge came back suddenly when I thought I had it fixed...with no discernable cause! It's a spasm, relieved by stretching...so I know the cause is elsewhere but damned if I can find it!
__________________
Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. -- Sidney J. Harris
Rubber Bands: I bought a few because if I work out at home they take the place of seated cable pulls, shoulder exercises, needed for one of the MagMob. Great tool to have in the home, travel gym.
I can sort of understand this gripe with regards to trainers who use gadgets they don't fully understand. I went through my "Paul Chek phase" (to steal a phrase from Bill Hartman) many years ago, and frankly deserved the crap I caught for it.
However, many of these things are simply tools. K-bells are really nothing more than a D-bell will a different shape. I liked Dos's comment at the summit about the RKB certifications... It's like being certified in Dumbbells. But that doesn't mean that K-bells are stupid. It's still a weight. It's the hype built up around it that appears to be turning you off.
Rubber bands are great if you know how to use them and why you're using them. There are some very practical applications to using them.
Stability balls reached the point of being ridiculous with all the ways people were using them, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a place in a routine. Balancing on one foot while juggling Russian K-bells is not one of them.
Once nautilus was all the rage. Machines have dominated bodybuilding routines for a long time. As you may have observed in this forum, most of us are pretty set on doing ground-based fitness programs, but that doesn't mean that all machines are bad. I have a client that I will ocassionally use leg extensions/curls on because he has drop foot, and it really helps add a dimension to his workouts.
Regarding vibration training, I think before you throw it out as a useless fad you need to look at the research.
Again, I think it sounds to me like your complaint is more based on the droves of trainers who use stuff they don't really understand.
However, many of these things are simply tools. K-bells are really nothing more than a D-bell will a different shape. I liked Dos's comment at the summit about the RKB certifications... It's like being certified in Dumbbells. But that doesn't mean that K-bells are stupid. It's still a weight. It's the hype built up around it that appears to be turning you off.
Great points, and it is the hype built around all them that annoys me; hell, even if they're hyping up machines it makes me shake my head. Its as if people want to replace hard work with empty miracles.
Quote:
Once nautilus was all the rage. Machines have dominated bodybuilding routines for a long time. As you may have observed in this forum, most of us are pretty set on doing ground-based fitness programs, but that doesn't mean that all machines are bad.
I completely agree, and I personally believe that machines have a specific place in my bodybuilding career (e.g. using leg extension to bring out more definition of an already well-built quadricep base).
Thanks for all the replies; now I get to look at things from a different perspective-and that's how ya learn.
__________________
*****************************
Walk on
With hope in your heart
And You'll Never Walk Alone
*****************************
There's no free lunch, especially when it's served with special sauce (lostdog)
***************************** My Log - PC Plod
just wanted to post my feelings on the postural fad thing
for anyone short of competive bodybuilders posture should be one of the main concerns when lifting, for the average person does it really matter if they can bench an extra ten lbs or gain a fraction of an inch on their chest if they did it at the cost of causing their humurus to rotate internally and adventally causeing a rotator cuff tear due to scupla disfunction all due to not consdiering functional musclar balance
this is most likely a bad example but i just wanted to prove a point
i think we see alot of people in therapy for suff they could of avoided by doing some mobility work pre work out and programming better
I have used bands, I have used chains, I currently use kettlebells, I use rocks, a tire, a wheelbarrow that I load up, a sledgehammer, and traditional barbells and dumbells. I use everything that I think will help me in my training. I don;t exclusively use one thing or another, and I don;t think that one thing is the be all, end all of training. Limiting yourself to only one type of implement if others are avilable to you is a self defeating action in my opinion.
I have used bands, I have used chains, I currently use kettlebells, I use rocks, a tire, a wheelbarrow that I load up, a sledgehammer, and traditional barbells and dumbells. I use everything that I think will help me in my training. I don;t exclusively use one thing or another, and I don;t think that one thing is the be all, end all of training. Limiting yourself to only one type of implement if others are avilable to you is a self defeating action in my opinion.
Agreed. Just because something is a fad or the hot thing at the moment, doesn't mean it's not effective. The obvious exception here crappy, high dollar machines that stick you in a fixed plane of motion.
__________________
Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
It's the hype built around the things that annoy the hell out of me. As aforementioned, people rather replace work with unrealistic "miracle techniques and/or machines".
I completely agree, and I personally believe that machines have a specific place in my bodybuilding career (e.g. using leg extension to bring out more definition of an already well-built quadricep base).
You're a bodybuilder?
Don't get me wrong on the leg extension. I hate the machine for the most part. If you have enough energy to do leg extensions then you need to get back under a squat bar.
Some of the most impressive-looking quads I have ever seen are on sprinters. Guess how much time those guys spend doing leg extensions?
I get the impression that you are pretty young. At this stage in the game I would advise sticking with your foundation exercises, unless you are just naturally gifted and freakishly large without trying.
Stability balls reached the point of being ridiculous with all the ways people were using them, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a place in a routine. Balancing on one foot while juggling Russian K-bells is not one of them.
There are some people, I think the ones I would label as "muscleheads" that outright refuse to acknowledge the validity of stability balls. No crunches on balls, no swiss ball later rolls, supine hips extensions w/ leg curl (the only time you'll see me doing leg curls), etc, etc, etc.
I don't do my lifting on a stability ball, but Alwyn's program are proof that they have their place.
Thus, there is a distinction between the stability ball fad and the thigh master fad. One done to excess, the other having no proof of value whatsoever.
It's the hype built around the things that annoy the hell out of me. As aforementioned, people rather replace work with unrealistic "miracle techniques and/or machines".
You have to be able to dissociate all the bullshit that is put out there and determine for yourself what is usefull and what isn't. If the mainstream media started hyping barbells and dumbells as the miracle equipement and that it could help you get thin in 7 minutes a day, would you stop using them? No, you would still keep using them because you know they work. Don't limit yourself. I think it was Mike Boyle who said "don't just read things that you agree with". The quote may be off but the idea is not to just limit yourself to stuff you already believe in but to try things and if they truly don't work then to really understand why they don't work.
The biggest disctinction you have to make when evaluating a fitness product is whether or not it is a tool or just a gadget being promoted by a "tool."
I used to think I had to know, learn and use every device in the arsenal, until I realized that the basics were the things that did me the most good. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of things you can do with dumbbells and barbells, so pick your arsenal of accessories wisely.
The best, in my opinion, are the ones that supplement or enhance those two basic pieces of equipment. The Swiss Ball can put a different emphasis on a crunch or press, for example. A band or chain can be used to add a different element to a squat. Those that try to function on their own are usually not worth a second look, although there are always exceptions.
__________________ In Fitness & Friendship, MAHLER
______________________________ __________________________ There is no light at the end of the tunnel. You carry the light with you.
I am only commenting based on my limited personal experience and those of my close circle of friends who are at least a little interested in staying fit and healthy.
Swissball. It works for me as form of platform to sit and lie on so I can do my weights. Excellent for those without a bench. I've done some form of prehab, mobility and core work with the swissball. Used properly, it can make some bodyweight exercises tougher. While I don't endorse some exercises with this, there are many exercises that are great with this. One of my hated exercises is actually bulgarian split squat with the trailing leg on the ball. Not only must the front leg work hard, the back leg is challenged to balance and keep the torso upright and tight. It's been around the physiotherapy and rehab arena for long enough to prove its efficacy. I am not classifying this as a fad but as with anything that is released in the mainstream, you can trust someone to always come up with a dangerous exercise for them.
Vibration - This is a dumb idea as far as training is concerned. Unless someone is bed-ridden, I don't see how anyone with at least a little mobility not benefitting by moving their bodies themselves. It just trains you to be lazy. You want poor motor learning skills and inefficient innervation of the musculo-skeletal system, this is the way.
Medicine Balls. Great for training explosive upper body movements. A must-have for athletic and MMA training facilities. It has it's place especially since it's not really effective to train explosiveness using barbells because of the deceleration at the top portion of the lift in order to bring it to a stop.
Rubber Bands and Chains. I think these have been understated in importance for many years. I know I've used this effectively to improve my bench press.The accomodating resistance helps to add a certain dimension to training that other equipments just can't provide. Because they apply resistance accodringly to where you're strongest or weakest at, I find that it's a real time saver as I can combine different exercises easily in a single movement. For example, using chains, I can combine a seated bicep curl with an overhead press effectively because most people can press more than they can curl so the resistance automatically increases when you transit from the top portion of the curl to the press.
Postural Training - I don't know how people classify this but I'm amazed, having worshipped the 8am-7pm office devil myself, the astounding number of people need this. Basically, just to remind themselves to straighten up, relax the shoulders, decompress the spine. I don't think many people need training for this, they just need reminders at regular intervals when at a desk job.
Electric Stimulation - This is the realm of the athletic trainer and physio. I haven't tried this before nor do I forsee myself needing this but the fact that it makes it into almost every major textbook on the subject of athletic training suggest there might be of some benefit. It is also always in the "toolkit" in all major sporting events internationally.
Kettelbells - I wished I could have been more entertained by these but unlike what some people say, I just don't see the benefit having tried it for 3 months. Firstly, I would imagine the jump in weights to be a restricting factor for many. Secondly, a lot of moves shown in the kettlebell literature are less strength and hypertrophy focused in nature. Rather the emphasis is treating kettlebell lifting as a skill... and personally to what end might that achieve for me is confusing. Thirdly, I can get a lot more mileage for my dollar when I invest in more orthodox equipment like dumbbells and barbells. I find that training with heavy thick handle dumbbells to be better/ tougher for me.
I agree. I get sick and tired of reading "in only 6 days" or with only "15 minutes a day on this device/program"..yada yada yada. Bullshit.
Being healthy and fit takes discipline and hard work. There are NO safe short cuts.
If it were easy and you could take shortcuts, 50% of America wouldn't be obese.
__________________ "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood..."
It's the hype built around the things that annoy the hell out of me. As aforementioned, people rather replace work with unrealistic "miracle techniques and/or machines".
Well, do the people you see being trained in the functional manner you find so annoying look like they're getting a workout?
A majority of my current clients are golfers at the moment. The last thing in the world that they want is mass. I have trained football players in the past, and yes [cringe], even bodybuilders (ducks and runs). The programs I design for them are completely different based on the clients needs, but there are some common themes. Many or most of the exercises I do with them may be considered functional (for lack of a better term, although I agree with Hartman's pet peeve with the term since virtually all exercises serve some function). They have little need for heavy dumbbell curls.
Now if I were training a 20-yr-old who wanted to "get jacked" (and planned to do it naturally), I would probably focus a lot more on big lifts (deadlift, bench press, squat, etc). For those clients I have found autoregulatory training (in the appropriate rep range) to be quite effective, or some of Waterburies protocols (10 X 3 full body workouts), or Staley's EDT (a real puke-fest... anyone remember how I made one of my clients hurl a few months ago).
I may not use bands at all. I rarely use a SB. I used to use them for crunches up till I went to Chicago and watched Stuart McGill.
Maybe we should get to know you a little better, Fulman, to get an idea of what your goals and current knowledge base. How much do you weigh? What is your training experience? Are you a trainer? Have you ever tried some of the "fad" training principles that you obviously seem to think have no place in a gym?
Vibration - This is a dumb idea as far as training is concerned. Unless someone is bed-ridden, I don't see how anyone with at least a little mobility not benefitting by moving their bodies themselves. It just trains you to be lazy. You want poor motor learning skills and inefficient innervation of the musculo-skeletal system, this is the way.
there have been some interesting discussions about vibration plates and vibration training over on the Supertraining group - both in the past when Mel was alive and recently.
Swissball. It works for me as form of platform to sit and lie on so I can do my weights. Excellent for those without a bench. I've done some form of prehab, mobility and core work with the swissball. Used properly, it can make some bodyweight exercises tougher. While I don't endorse some exercises with this, there are many exercises that are great with this. One of my hated exercises is actually bulgarian split squat with the trailing leg on the ball. Not only must the front leg work hard, the back leg is challenged to balance and keep the torso upright and tight. It's been around the physiotherapy and rehab arena for long enough to prove its efficacy. I am not classifying this as a fad but as with anything that is released in the mainstream, you can trust someone to always come up with a dangerous exercise for them.
I would drop those bulgarian split squats with the SB. You are really limiting your load capacity on that, and since you are going unilateral you are already going to work harder to balance. To improve your balance on the ground, your feet must actually be grounded.
Quote:
Vibration - This is a dumb idea as far as training is concerned. Unless someone is bed-ridden, I don't see how anyone with at least a little mobility not benefitting by moving their bodies themselves. It just trains you to be lazy. You want poor motor learning skills and inefficient innervation of the musculo-skeletal system, this is the way.
I don't think you've given this due diligence. It's late and I'm whupped so I'm not going to dig up any links (maybe the linx-ster is up to it), but there are some very impressive studies on the use of whole body vibration training. I don't have one or don't use one, but I have read some pretty respectable sources saying that there is real value to athletes. Verstegen has 6 of them in his gym, and his football players are on them every day. Not saying that this makes it right... Just saying you should read up on it more.
Quote:
Medicine Balls. Great for training explosive upper body movements. A must-have for athletic and MMA training facilities. It has it's place especially since it's not really effective to train explosiveness using barbells because of the deceleration at the top portion of the lift in order to bring it to a stop.
I use them for many of my rotational exercises. Very useful indeed.
Quote:
Rubber Bands and Chains. I think these have been understated in importance for many years. I know I've used this effectively to improve my bench press.The accomodating resistance helps to add a certain dimension to training that other equipments just can't provide. Because they apply resistance accodringly to where you're strongest or weakest at, I find that it's a real time saver as I can combine different exercises easily in a single movement. For example, using chains, I can combine a seated bicep curl with an overhead press effectively because most people can press more than they can curl so the resistance automatically increases when you transit from the top portion of the curl to the press.
I have a set of chains in my gym, but I have yet to see any of my members follow a Westside template. I do like bands. Schmitz really influenced my stance, I have to admit.
Quote:
Postural Training - I don't know how people classify this but I'm amazed, having worshipped the 8am-7pm office devil myself, the astounding number of people need this. Basically, just to remind themselves to straighten up, relax the shoulders, decompress the spine. I don't think many people need training for this, they just need reminders at regular intervals when at a desk job.
I'm not even sure what most people even consider to be postural training. I've never used it. I know of two methods. Alexander technique, which appears to be bunk; it's like raki (a massage where the therapist never even touches you, but hovers their hands above your body and pretend they are working with your "energy fields") combined with soft touches and soft voice (ugh!), and rolfing; ART without direction or focus. Active Release Therapy would have some application in correcting posture I suppose. The best postural training advice I can give someone is to quit their desk job.
Quote:
Electric Stimulation - This is the realm of the athletic trainer and physio. I haven't tried this before nor do I forsee myself needing this but the fact that it makes it into almost every major textbook on the subject of athletic training suggest there might be of some benefit. It is also always in the "toolkit" in all major sporting events internationally.
I have actually tried this. I have a friend who is massive, and he's as strong as he is big, and I used to train with him back in my more hardcore days. He was a little crazy, and after we'd blow out a bodypart, we'd hook up to his system and send a bunch of volts through our muscles (I guess we were finishing the muscle off?). I can't say there was much benefit though. I was a bit of a masochist back then.
Quote:
Kettelbells - I wished I could have been more entertained by these but unlike what some people say, I just don't see the benefit having tried it for 3 months. Firstly, I would imagine the jump in weights to be a restricting factor for many. Secondly, a lot of moves shown in the kettlebell literature are less strength and hypertrophy focused in nature. Rather the emphasis is treating kettlebell lifting as a skill... and personally to what end might that achieve for me is confusing. Thirdly, I can get a lot more mileage for my dollar when I invest in more orthodox equipment like dumbbells and barbells. I find that training with heavy thick handle dumbbells to be better/ tougher for me.
I haven't really used them before, other than playing with them at conferences. I wouldn't mind having a set. Gray Cook swears by k-bell swings. I wasn't sure what to make of his stance. It seemed a little market-driven, but I don't know if that's fair. He certainly is brilliant. Steve Cotter does some things with them that don't even seem humanly possible? Anyone else out there ever watch this guy?
Kettelbells - I wished I could have been more entertained by these but unlike what some people say, I just don't see the benefit having tried it for 3 months. Firstly, I would imagine the jump in weights to be a restricting factor for many. Secondly, a lot of moves shown in the kettlebell literature are less strength and hypertrophy focused in nature. Rather the emphasis is treating kettlebell lifting as a skill... and personally to what end might that achieve for me is confusing. Thirdly, I can get a lot more mileage for my dollar when I invest in more orthodox equipment like dumbbells and barbells. I find that training with heavy thick handle dumbbells to be better/ tougher for me.
I've only touched a kb once, so this isn't from experience...
I think the jump in weight forces you to think differently about your training. Ways that most of us aren't accustomed to, so we'd probably see results. You work with max reps, which drop dramatically from set to set. Timed sets for reps.
There may be some dissadvantages to the weird shape, but it also allows or encourages you to do unusual things that would never do, otherwise.
Granted, most of the things that you'd do with a kb could be done with a fixed weight db. But, they are also very dense and small for their weight. That and the shape of the handle allows a wide variety of subtle hand positions. One or two handed grip. You can hold it in your palm, like you'd hold an extremely heavy melon. You can hold it up with the handle down, which really works the wrist. You can hold it inboard or outboard, which changes your balance when you are just holding one. etc.
I guess they look like a fun thing to have around. And, if you have something that's fun at home, you might use it. I'd like to get a few to lug to the beach. I can think of a few things that would seem more fun with kbs than with dbs.
Fitness Fads and Their Results
Linear Mode
