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And You'll Never Walk Alone
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***************************** My Log - PC Plod
4) Mike Roussell standing in the elevator: "Have you guys read Salt yet?"
Bill: "An entire book about salt? No."
Lou: "Was it peppered with good information?"
Everyone else in the elevator: "Sigh... "
Great review! The Summit was so wonderful. The review captured the presentations but just gave that little taste of how fun the rest of the time was. Just about every moment was full of that kind of social interaction. The Summit exceeded all my expectations.
4) Mike Roussell standing in the elevator: "Have you guys read Salt yet?"
Bill: "An entire book about salt? No."
Lou: "Was it peppered with good information?"
Everyone else in the elevator: "Sigh... "
I think the sigh was more like a groan. I know I said "aww f*(k" after he said that.
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
Ch. 1: Guess what sodium and chloride make if you mix 'em
Ch. 2: Hmmm....it tastes kinda... "salty"
Ch. 3: Is it still called "table salt" if you keep it in the cupboard?
Ch. 4: Ya know, from a distance, it looks like sugar
Ch. 5: And Pepper
Ch. 6: Na+ vs. K+...who gets Cl-
Ch. 7: Your goiter and YOU!
Ch. 8: Coming Soon...Salt II: Return of the Cations
Nice review! Looking forward to go backing throught it a few more times to fully absorb all the info.
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"Rust on a nail builds tetanus. Rust on a barbell builds character, strength, and attitude." -EC
"Don't spend your life wishing. Spend it doing." -FishrCutB8
"You're a mutant, like a snake with two heads or a cat shy one nipple. Be thankful that your mutation is helpful." - LD
Wish I was able to go. It would've been a really cool experience.
Quote:
Here's an interesting thought for you: You need a caloric deficit to lose fat and a caloric surplus to gain muscle, right? Therefore it's impossible to do both at the same time, right?
Well, one study put the participants on an 800 calorie per day liquid diet for 90 days. The average weight loss was 35 pounds. Yet all subjects increased the cross sectional area of their muscle fibers significantly. It appears that weight training can produce hypertrophy in skeletal muscle (and therefore increases in metabolism) during severe energy restriction and large-scale weight loss.
I would've jumped up with a hear hear on that one. I get in arguments over that sort of thing all the time.
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
Ch. 1: Guess what sodium and chloride make if you mix 'em
Ch. 2: Hmmm....it tastes kinda... "salty"
Ch. 3: Is it still called "table salt" if you keep it in the cupboard?
Ch. 4: Ya know, from a distance, it looks like sugar
Ch. 5: And Pepper
Ch. 6: Na+ vs. K+...who gets Cl-
Ch. 7: Your goiter and YOU!
Ch. 8: Coming Soon...Salt II: Return of the Cations
Bill
I need a new keyboard now!
__________________
"My darling," she said at last, "are you sure you don't mind being a mouse for the rest of your life?"
"I don't mind at all," I said. "It doesn't matter who you are or what you look like so long as somebody loves you."
I think that's the first Summit recap I've seen without any goofy pics of Nick.
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
I would've jumped up with a hear hear on that one. I get in arguments over that sort of thing all the time.
Here's Alwyn's post last year when he mentioned the study. Brad Pilon went on to do some awesome writing about it on his blog, but then the blog was shut down, sorry.
Yes, my memory is downright scary.
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
- Mignon McLaughlin
Here's Alwyn's post last year when he mentioned the study. Brad Pilon went on to do some awesome writing about it on his blog, but then the blog was shut down, sorry.
Yes, my memory is downright scary.
Thanks. Ya, I just think a lot of people underestimate the body and/or overthink things sometimes.
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
Thanks. Ya, I just think a lot of people underestimate the body and/or overthink things sometimes.
Not to throw a wrench into the discussion (well, maybe a little), but the study was conducted with overweight, non-exercisers:
Quote:
Participants
Twenty subjects (17 women, three men) with a mean age of 36.7ą11.5 years, weight of 95.1ą13.0 kg, and a BMI of 35.2ą2.9 kg/m2 were recruited through newspaper advertisements to participate in a 12-week diet and exercise study. The criteria for participation in the study were no involvement in a regular exercise or weight loss program for at least 6 months prior to the first visit and no known cardiovascular, endocrinologic or orthopedic disorders.
So basically, it described the "newbie effect." Unless I'm misunderstanding the argument, I wouldn't claim that this is proof positive that a person at already low bf levels can continue making significant gains in muscle hypertrophy while hypocaloric (although I don't think that it's impossible, either...just not the best way to get to either goal). Newbies get away with this through "body recomposition," but experienced lifters don't typically have this luxury.
So basically, it described the "newbie effect." Unless I'm misunderstanding the argument, I wouldn't claim that this is proof positive that a person at already low bf levels can continue making significant gains in muscle hypertrophy while hypocaloric (although I don't think that it's impossible, either...just not the best way to get to either goal). Newbies get away with this through "body recomposition," but experienced lifters don't typically have this luxury.
It's possible, if you eat low enough that you're body is releasing the stored lipds, but enough that the body is turning around and using them as an energy boost to build muscle.
However, I heard the body can only release so much at a time (else we could lose all the fat we want in a matter of hours, right?), so your caloric intake would have such a narrow and precise margin, it would be impracticle for everyday people.
Not to throw a wrench into the discussion (well, maybe a little), but the study was conducted with overweight, non-exercisers:
So basically, it described the "newbie effect." Unless I'm misunderstanding the argument, I wouldn't claim that this is proof positive that a person at already low bf levels can continue making significant gains in muscle hypertrophy while hypocaloric (although I don't think that it's impossible, either...just not the best way to get to either goal). Newbies get away with this through "body recomposition," but experienced lifters don't typically have this luxury.
Oh no, I don't think that would be the optimal way to go. But it's enough to counter some of the myths and exaggerations. I've been on boards where guys have told 300 lb guys not to try and gain muscle and just work on cutting the fat. As if a person at that weight and bodyfat % would not be able to accomplish both simultaneously. I know I've dropped as low as 12% bf while gaining muscle and I've seen some other trained people do even better. I just think it's harder (and probably not the best way if someone's main goal is mass). I think the lower your bodyfat % is the harder it is to lose fat and build muscle at the same time. But most people will never be at a point where it is not possible to do both simultaneously if they try. But more than anything, I just hate the dogma. lol
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
Oh no, I don't think that would be the optimal way to go. But it's enough to counter some of the myths and exaggerations. I've been on boards where guys have told 300 lb guys not to try and gain muscle and just work on cutting the fat. As if a person at that weight and bodyfat % would not be able to accomplish both simultaneously. I know I've dropped as low as 12% bf while gaining muscle and I've seen some other trained people do even better. I just think it's harder (and probably not the best way if someone's main goal is mass). I think the lower your bodyfat % is the harder it is to lose fat and build muscle at the same time. But most people will never be at a point where it is not possible to do both simultaneously if they try. But more than anything, I just hate the dogma. lol
Oh no, I don't think that would be the optimal way to go. But it's enough to counter some of the myths and exaggerations. I've been on boards where guys have told 300 lb guys not to try and gain muscle and just work on cutting the fat. As if a person at that weight and bodyfat % would not be able to accomplish both simultaneously. I know I've dropped as low as 12% bf while gaining muscle and I've seen some other trained people do even better. I just think it's harder (and probably not the best way if someone's main goal is mass). I think the lower your bodyfat % is the harder it is to lose fat and build muscle at the same time. But most people will never be at a point where it is not possible to do both simultaneously if they try. But more than anything, I just hate the dogma. lol
I had the same thought as bip re the newbie effect.
At some point it could be dogma, but it is? I hear anecdotal accounts of both happening in people of various training ages, but is there more science to look at? I want studies of different training age populations to tell us what might happen.
I think it is very significant to know if, particularly for trained individuals, they need to follow the usual dogma, as Chiron put it, of either being in caloric deficit or surplus, or if one can decide to focus on fat loss and still hope to see muscle development of some sort. I may be that it all depends on the individual, but if that's the case, then what are the traits or characteristics of such an indivdual?
Personally, as a 47 (almost) year old guy who is having a heck of a time dropping fat, and who can put on muscle but only, it seems, if eating enough such to also gain fat, I AIN'T ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS! LOL Of course, it could just be my dietary programming and lack of compliance.
Yeah, I think we're all agreed on the newbie thing. It was brought up in the original thread too, I think.
Like Alwyn said at the summit, we're not necessarily saying that this is way to go for all trainees. We're simply saying the mechanism exists to do these amazing things we previously thought impossible.
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
- Mignon McLaughlin
Tmag review of the JP Fitness Summit 2007!
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