Does Size Matter?

[maherali]

Hi,

Can a beginner continue to gain strength workout after workout without the need to gain muscle (by eating maintenance calories)?

Maher

[Frank.S]

You wont grow much without a surplus of energy, Youll likely still get growth but if your not eating enough its not going to be huge. This has alot to to with being a beginner. I highly doubt someone with a few years of reallifting experience will gain muscle without a surplus, although it has happend. Im not sure why you would want this though. Having more muscle has several advantages.

[maherali]

I just want to loose more fat and I don't think the stage of the program I'm in (BoM, the beginnings) allows me to gain muscle.

[Frank.S]

If you want to loose more fat, dont worry about gaining muscle whatsoever.

Muscle brings up your metabolic rate (youll burn more cals in a given day) this can help shed the fat. Make your workouts hard, gain some muscle.

[RobLL]

Gaining strength, strenuous workouts, you will gain muscle unless you are in some sort of serious calorie deficit. Why not gain a little muscle?

[Mahler]

It is quite possible to make strength gains without significant weight gains. Muscle size and pure strength don't always go hand in hand.

[Alan Aragon]

Originally Posted by maherali

Hi,

Can a beginner continue to gain strength workout after workout without the need to gain muscle (by eating maintenance calories)?

Maher

Size gains are long-term adaptations, for the most part. A significant lag can happen between strength & size gains, especially in beginners. This is because of exponential gains happening in the neural department, compared to the mechanical and metabolic developments that eventually catch up and manifest themselves as either sarcoplasmic or myofibrillar hypertrophy or both (tried not to say that ). Regardless of beginners or advanced guys, size gains ALWAYS seem to lag behind strength gains, but as long as you maintain an upward trend in strength, the size will follow. Another possibility of the illusion of a lack of size gain is a simultaneous loss of fat and gain in muscle, which can neutralize net increases in limb & torso girth, as well as net increases in total bodyweight - at least initially. Just give it some time (a few weeks to a couple of months), then reassess. As long as your strength keeps going up, and you're not progressively piling on fat, then stick to it.

[Jason B]

It's possible, but realize your strength gains are more easily maintained when accompanied by a base of muscle hypertrophy. A beginner's primary adaptations will be neural anyway (like Alan said), but gaining muscle along with this will help avoid plateaus and create potential for more strength gains down the road. And like Frank said, more muscle will increase your resting metabolism and help you burn fat. You can also take advantage of the fact that beginners can often gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously.

[Lost Dog]

Powerlifters who want to stay in a weight class gain strength all the time, with no wieght gain and sometimes a weight loss.

Just don't eat a lot.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

Powerlifters who want to stay in a weight class gain strength all the time, with no wieght gain and sometimes a weight loss.

Just don't eat a lot.

or, they gain weight and cut water. :p

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Alan Aragon

Size gains are long-term adaptations, for the most part. A significant lag can happen between strength & size gains, especially in beginners. This is because of exponential gains happening in the neural department, compared to the mechanical and metabolic developments that eventually catch up and manifest themselves as either sarcoplasmic or myofibrillar hypertrophy or both (tried not to say that ). Regardless of beginners or advanced guys, size gains ALWAYS seem to lag behind strength gains, but as long as you maintain an upward trend in strength, the size will follow. Another possibility of the illusion of a lack of size gain is a simultaneous loss of fat and gain in muscle, which can neutralize net increases in limb & torso girth, as well as net increases in total bodyweight - at least initially. Just give it some time (a few weeks to a couple of months), then reassess. As long as your strength keeps going up, and you're not progressively piling on fat, then stick to it.

Brilliant Alan. Damb interesting answer.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Jason B

but gaining muscle along with this will help avoid plateaus and create potential for more strength gains down the road.

That's an interesting thought. I guess most of the time we get the cart before the horse, so to speak. We think I need to get bigger so I will be stronger..but you actually get stronger and then bigger. I guess it's a cycle. Interesting stuff.

[maherali]

Thanks for everyone who helped clarify this issue for me.

Maher

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

but you actually get stronger and then bigger.

Not always. Sometimes (for those who are very neurally efficient with high relative strength) it is necessary to get bigger before any more strength gains can be made. They're already getting all the horsepower they can out of their engine, so the only way to increase it is to get a bigger engine. Relative strength may actually go down during this hypertrophy phase, but now there is the potential for more strength.

[Alan Aragon]

The instances where folks gain size before strength have mainly to do with rapid gains in muscular hydration, as in the case of glycogen increases after either acute or chronic depletion, the introduction of creatine, the introduction of AAS. Oh yeah, women will get varying degrees of premenstrual h20 gain/retention. But usually that's accompanied by becoming extremely headstrong

[Jason B]

I was referring more toward the intention of training cycles. Athletes that have been using pure relative strength protocols for extended periods of time can reach points where strength gains are very hard (if not impossible) to come by without focus on building size first. Not referring to beginners (or intermediates) here. Of course even when focusing on size, strength gains will still come, but the bigger purpose is the strength potential the hypertrophy brings. When returning to strength focused training, gains are much easier to come by and relative strength can be brought back to where it was before the gain in weight, while absolute strength is higher.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Alan Aragon

The instances where folks gain size before strength have mainly to do with rapid gains in muscular hydration, as in the case of glycogen increases after either acute or chronic depletion, the introduction of creatine, the introduction of AAS. Oh yeah, women will get varying degrees of premenstrual h20 gain/retention. But usually that's accompanied by becoming extremely headstrong

:p :p :p No doubt. I've witnessed that first hand.

One word..Midol.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Jason B

I was referring more toward the intention of training cycles. Athletes that have been using pure relative strength protocols for extended periods of time can reach points where strength gains are very hard (if not impossible) to come by without focus on building size first. Not referring to beginners (or intermediates) here. Of course even when focusing on size, strength gains will still come, but the bigger purpose is the strength potential the hypertrophy brings. When returning to strength focused training, gains are much easier to come by and relative strength can be brought back to where it was before the gain in weight, while absolute strength is higher.

So I guess the answer is: "well that depends...."

The human body is one complicated machine.

Fascinating stuff guys.