315 Deadlifts

[Eric Cressey]

My blog for today...

I see that this caused quite a bit of a stir - worthy of a thread being closed, so I thought I'd put this out there to - at the very least - put things in perspective.

You guys need to remember that sometimes, to make a point, you use a hyperbole. Why do marketers hire professional athletes to promote products to kids who will likely never become professional athletes?

I have new clients who haven't pulled 315 yet - and I might never even want to take them that far. Some don't even deadlift. The deadlift is just a reference point for people to realize that they can do pretty amazing things if they stop selling themselves short. Consider these factors...

1. I haven't missed a planned exercise session in seven years in spite of the fact that I've injuries here and there along the way. Consistency is the single-most important element of success in terms of strength gains. If you have competing demands (sports practices, endurance training, etc.), you need to be consistent with those as well in order to make progress - and they might interfere with you getting a big deadlift (again, not the point of the article).

2. To that end, give this article a read:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=638987

Right now, you might only be covering a few of the 28 factors - and therefore have a tremendous window of adaptation.

3. In the 148-pound weight and 70-74 age class, the world record deadlift (WPC) is 440 pounds.

My point is that if you live your life thinking about limits, you're condemned to find them prematurely. This world record holder probably trained a lot harder and more frequently than you and with better nutrition and recovery protocols in place; he wasn't just a weekend warrior on an internet forum. So, in consideration of that, if you're putting in, say, 25% of the effort they're putting in, why should you EVER reach a limit?

The main problem I see with the overwhelming majority of people who get their information from the internet is that they're convinced that they are in some way completely unique and immune to the laws of physiology because they have the curse of knowledge. It's either because they played high school football 30 years ago, they've had four knee surgeries, they're too old, or a host of other issues. When it really comes down to it, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of mediocrity that can only be remedied by getting out there, working hard and smart, being consistent and open-minded, and discovering that the sky really is the limit.

A 315 deadlift is a solid mental image that fits into everyone's existing schemas, so it's an easy frame of reference from which to elicit an emotional response. If I had said that everyone needed to deadlift 1.57x body weight and incorporated a multiplying factor for age, gender, limb length, amount of endurance activity per week, etc. - people would have missed the point.

To be honest, the posters on this forum are quite possibly the most supportive on the 'net - something that you think would allow them to see the benefit of an entire article rather than focusing on one sentence that was merely an example.

[laxcdn]

I read the first article and that was the one line that stuck out for me. I just wanted to know what other people thought about it. Why, because I am weak and 315 is a heavy weight. I am getting close to pulling that, but until I do that is a goal. Once I hit 315 then I will set the goal higher. But if I had just started to dl and I was only pulling 175 and I see that 315 is nothing, I would feel discouraged. I don't think people should set a goal and then just stop, reach it then set another. I just don't like it when people set absolutes. ie 315 is weak, don't do upright rows, you HAVE to have carbs with protien for post workout. Everyone is different and things work differently for everyone.

I know that you know your stuff and you just helped Gabe get bigger and stronger. I hope that you don't get in that t-nation headspace where if you aren't huge, lift over a ton and look at anyone who isn't as not worthy. As you saw at the JP summit, most people are not like the t-nation guys.

[hard_rox]

Good post Eric, and nice follow-up, Mike.

[Lisa~]

Great post Eric. Sometimes we do limit ourselves and fail to see our potential. This conversation made me think of an excellent article by Charles Staley. I don't have a link to it, so I'll post it here.

You are exactly where you want to be right now.
By Charles Staley

Do you think that motivation is a fundamental issue when it comes to successful exercise or athletic training programs?

I don't. In fact, I KNOW it isn't!

How can I say this? Easily, often, without hesitation, and with supreme confidence.

Look: You are exactly where you want to be right now. You've already taken the steps necessary to achieve your station in life, and not one bit more. And you're completely satisfied with that station in life. Even if you know you could be much leaner, stronger, faster (or whatever trait or quality that applies most to you) than you are.

Now you might say "Well, that's not true— I know someone who is 100 pounds overweight and he's miserable!"

To which I say, no, he's satisfied. Clearly, the benefit he's deriving from his behaviors still outweighs the drawbacks, or else he'd change those behaviors!

OK, let's use me as an example. I'm reasonably lean and my goals revolve around physical capacity— strength, speed, and so on. And I've got a particular affection for the power clean— probably because I'm fairly good at it relative to other lifts. Anyway, I sometimes catch myself telling someone that I'd "love" to be able to power clean 315 pounds (my current best is 275 pounds).

But whenever I say that, I'm lying. Why? Because, quite simply, if I REALLY wanted a 315 power clean, I would have already taken the steps necessary to accomplish that particular feat!

Now, if I wanted to find excuses for my inability to clean 315, I could probably find them. I'm 44 years old. I've had several very serious knee surgeries. I'm ectomorphic. I don't use performance-enhancing drugs. I got picked on a lot when I was in elementary school. Come to think of it, this could end up being a pretty big list!

I'm not really interested in excuses though. The fact is, I'm healthy, knowledgeable, athletic, my profession provides me with ample time and energy to train, I know lots of great Olympic weightlifters and coaches, I have a great gym right in my home.... OK, this can potentially be a bigger list than the excuses list!

Which leads me to the following conclusion:

I don't really want to have a 315 power clean.

Man, that really hurt. But you know what? It's absolutely true. I simply cannot escape the plain fact that I have not done what it takes to achieve a 315 clean. Perhaps, someday I will, but for now, it's obvious to me that the enjoyment I get from not having to train in a way that would permit me to clean 315 outweighs the enjoyment from being able to actually do a 315 clean.

And that's OK! And there's a great lesson here: maybe some of your goals aren't appropriate for you, because they don't really mean enough for you to take action.

Question: What's your #1 goal? Right now. Do you have one? Statistically, you probably don't. But if you do, here's what I'd like to have you consider: how important is that goal to you? Have you arranged your entire life in a way that supports your accomplishment of that goal?

I certainly haven't (in the case of the 315 pound power clean).

This article is primarily meant to inspire some self-analysis — not to provide hard and fast answers. However, if you'd like some avenues to pursue some serious reflection, here are a few:

1. Develop self-reliant behavior — create the mindset that all of your limitations are self-imposed (because they almost certainly are).

2. Get out of your comfort zone, and find a way to enjoy it. When your stomach is growling because you're hungry, think "Perfect! This is what I need to experience if I'm going to drop that extra bodyfat!"

3. Find out what works, and then do more of it. Find out what's derailing your efforts, and do less of that.

4. Cultivate dissatisfaction. After all, that's why you're where you are now — you're satisfied with it.

5. Seek out and cultivate empowering personal relationships. The people you spend the most time with have a profound effect on your life. Make sure it's a profoundly POSITIVE effect.

I hope this article has been instructive for you.

Perhaps you're thinking that the psychology of motivation is a lot more involved than the way I've presented it here. Of course, people who are excuse-makers always think that way. As long as you've got enough reasons why you can't succeed, you never will.

[eastcoastsurfer]

Great article Lisa. Reminds me of how I question people when they tell me they want to be rich (or millionaires, etc...). My first question is always why don't you do it? People often only see the results (nice cars, clothes, houses) and not the amount of work (I know CxOs of big companies and would never want their jobs) that people do to get where they are.

[Q.]

I think I missed whatever led up to this thread but this was a great post nonetheless. I pulled a 315 DL once, last year, and I don't know if I'll ever even attempt another one. However, that doesn't mean that I'm not striving for goals... they've just changed. I may go back to that goal in time, I don't know, but I think it's great to get this kind of reminder every once in a while to bring things back into perspective and refocus.

Thanks again... I think I personally needed to hear this today!

[Chris Correia]

Thanks for the follow-up, Eric (and Lisa). I think we all knew what you meant, but the discussion, for me at least, turned to the notion of goals, values, inspiration, comparison, and other such factors. Gotta watch that hyperbole; it can be easily misinterpreted and get one into hyper-misunderstanding.:p I understood the point, but still take issue with the notion of why and by whom something is seen as impressive.

Of course, technically, that wasn't hyperbole -- an exaggeration or an inflated metaphor -- as much as it was simply a contrarian or provocative statement made to emphasize a point. But you gotta watch that, too. If people are pissed at you or feel belittled, then they don't listen and learn. Take it from an instructor. (However, that doesn't mean I don't challenge people, slap them with reality and/or and kick them in the ass -- figuratively speaking -- to get them moving along.)

IMO, the original discussion topic should not have been locked. It included some good discussion. I didn't see any later posts that might have gotten deleted. Damn forum PC police.

The day I pull 315 or so -- and I expect to do so-- I will be happy. Damn impressive, too.

[Mahler]

I think this thread brings a lot more clarity to the situation. As one who had set a goal and reached it, I can completely understand both the frustration of the trainer who has to deal with clients who sell themselves short and the lifter who can get intimidated and even discouraged when reading that his/her efforts just don't seem to make the grade. Kicking oneself in the ass is possibly the most difficult exercise any of us will achieve.

[Blackjack]

I think Eric's point is that we're missing the forest for the trees.

[vuduchyld]

Originally Posted by Mahler

I think this thread brings a lot more clarity to the situation. As one who had set a goal and reached it, I can completely understand both the frustration of the trainer who has to deal with clients who sell themselves short and the lifter who can get intimidated and even discouraged when reading that his/her efforts just don't seem to make the grade. Kicking oneself in the ass is possibly the most difficult exercise any of us will achieve.

Brilliantly stated!

How do you do it over and over and over and over? You've summed up the issue and even made a funny that is completely true...all in less than 80 words!

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Blackjack

I think Eric's point is that we're missing the forest for the trees.

But has Eric ever, truly, seen a tree? After all, that is what comprises a forest. All of those wondrously beautiful, individual, varietal trees.

[Irishdazza]

I missed most of the original thread but can imagine some of the viewpoints - I think the funniest part is the thread criticisng Eric's deadlift form on T-nation in response - I picture every one of those guys maxing out at 150lbs!

Hilarious!

I like the Staley article a lot.

I think the only person ever qualified to judge our efforts is ourselves. As such we have a responsibility to be critical.

Eric's article and Charles' are reminders of that I think.

[gobbla]

IMO if that was your point then that's what you should have said. Getting focussed on a single paragraph comparing other people to your success and basically saying that they suck might have missed YOUR point, but that doesn't excuse that my recent PR was flat out bitch status in your eyes. In all honesty it is. I was happy and proud of myself for getting it though. Having someone say that it sucks...well...sucks. That doesn't motivate me. That doesn't inspire me.

The only thing I'm seeing now is "That's not the way it was intended. You should have known that". That doesn't motivate or inspire me either. Maybe I'm missing the forest, maybe I'm not the only one. It'd make me feel a lot more warm and fuzzy of this side of the argument was acknowledged rather than dismissed.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by gobbla

IMO if that was your point then that's what you should have said. Getting focussed on a single paragraph comparing other people to your success and basically saying that they suck might have missed YOUR point, but that doesn't excuse that my recent PR was flat out bitch status in your eyes. In all honesty it is. I was happy and proud of myself for getting it though. Having someone say that it sucks...well...sucks. That doesn't motivate me. That doesn't inspire me.

The only thing I'm seeing now is "That's not the way it was intended. You should have known that". That doesn't motivate or inspire me either. Maybe I'm missing the forest, maybe I'm not the only one. It'd make me feel a lot more warm and fuzzy of this side of the argument was acknowledged rather than dismissed.

Hey, G, you inspire me!

Your concern/perspective is well expressed, and is the concern I was getting at as well.

As I've learned from my own teaching experience, it's always after the fact that I learn how I communicated or taught was good or bad, effective or ineffective. That feedback/assessment comes from the student and their understanding and interpretation of what I said. What I intended doesn't mean shit if it wasn't heard or understood.

Further, I have to try to then understand what the student says or does in light of, or as a result of , what I said/taught. I shouldn't make a student do 20 pushups if they did the wrong thing because they misinterpreted what I said because it was confusing, unclear or convoluted. Actually, I usually still punish them, but tell them I understand their confusion. I sometimes use a line I read of a drill instructor telling recruits, "When I talk you damn well better know what I mean!" I love that one.

[gobbla]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

I sometimes use a line I read of a drill instructor telling recruits, "When I talk you damn well better know what I mean!" I love that one.

actually, it was my wife that said that

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by gobbla

actually, it was my wife that said that

If a woman said it, how is it that you remember it?

[gobbla]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

If a woman said it, how is it that you remember it?

I wanted to do her and knew there'd be a quiz