__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
And now he's 325? So he gained 140-150 pounds (almost doubled his body weight) in a year or two? And it's obviously by far mostly lean weight?
And we're even ASKING whether or not he MIGHT have juiced?
I'll bet he hasn't exactly improved his lipid profile and blood pressure!
Hes talking about Breck who now weighs 250. According to the thread, he weighed 231 last year. So 150->231 and lean? Hmmmmm.....
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
who cares if they used? it's still an awesome achievement. Even w/ all the steroids and hgh in the world, many people wouldn't be able to touch how far jesse has gotten in strongman.
who cares if they used? it's still an awesome achievement. Even w/ all the steroids and hgh in the world, many people wouldn't be able to touch how far jesse has gotten in strongman.
You position on steroid use seems odd.
If they were legal to use and okay in the federation (or whatever it's called), then people have the choice to on the same level without risking trouble.
Still, if basically everyone at that level does them, anyway, then fine. It's their risk and they get into the sport (or up to that level) knowing the risk.
But, it's a little like cheating at car racing by putting illegal parts or fuels in there to boost your speed. Sure, without the skill, they still wouldn't win. But, they give themselves an edge over someone who's likely a little more skilled. Do you defend that, too? You might like that your guy won, but I would still not defend the cheating. I'd silently gloat (Well, I wouldn't, but you get the idea...).
From a body composition standpoint, steroid use is a little like having some sort of surgery (lypo or a "tummy tuck," for instance). I don't think less of the person, really. And, I'll acknowledge how muscular they are, etc. But it's true that my abs (that I someday hope to have) would be less of an accomplishment if I had lypo than if I stuck to merely working out and dieting down.
I don't doubt that those guys have worked harder on their bodies than 99% of the lifting population, but if steroids played a big role, then who's to know what percentage their use played? There accomplishments are still huge, but less than those who don't use.
Personally, I think steroids should be legal (I think).
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
who cares if they used? it's still an awesome achievement. Even w/ all the steroids and hgh in the world, many people wouldn't be able to touch how far jesse has gotten in strongman.
Oh I dont care what they used. I just find it funny that someone posted "hes clean" when he and all the guys in WSM are on.
Drugs are allowed in SM so hes not cheating anything or anyone and I know that he and all the others at the top of sport work super hard. All drugs in the world arent going to make you WSM overnight or even get you to that level. But again, I just find it amusing that we even had to wonder if being 325 and lean is naturally attainable.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
If they were legal to use and okay in the federation (or whatever it's called), then people have the choice to on the same level without risking trouble.
Still, if basically everyone at that level does them, anyway, then fine. It's their risk and they get into the sport (or up to that level) knowing the risk.
But, it's a little like cheating at car racing by putting illegal parts or fuels in there to boost your speed. Sure, without the skill, they still wouldn't win. But, they give themselves an edge over someone who's likely a little more skilled. Do you defend that, too? You might like that your guy won, but I would still not defend the cheating. I'd silently gloat (Well, I wouldn't, but you get the idea...).
From a body composition standpoint, steroid use is a little like having some sort of surgery (lypo or a "tummy tuck," for instance). I don't think less of the person, really. And, I'll acknowledge how muscular they are, etc. But it's true that my abs (that I someday hope to have) would be less of an accomplishment if I had lypo than if I stuck to merely working out and dieting down.
I don't doubt that those guys have worked harder on their bodies than 99% of the lifting population, but if steroids played a big role, then who's to know what percentage their use played? There accomplishments are still huge, but less than those who don't use.
Personally, I think steroids should be legal (I think).
First off, i didn't start this thread to start a steroid debate, but i should have known that it would turn into that.
Every thread w/ a top bber, or top strongman, or top pler, always turns into "does he do steroids?" WHO CARES. They are the elite of their sport, so chances are that they do use.
Everyone knows when you get into strongman/pling/olifting/or bbing, that if you want to be considered "elite", and by elite, i mean a notch above everyone else, you need to use. Everyone who is in the top uses. You can bitch and moan about drug use in the sport, but the truth is that it is hush hush, but out in the open, because 99% of those elite lifters use them, and everyone who's slightly knowledable of the sport knows that they do use them.
So, if you're slightly knowledable, you should know that what you're getting into if you want to get to the top of the sport. It sucks if you don't want to use them, but you're not going to change it. Enter a drug free federation.
If i want to be a lawyer, i have to get a law degree. You have to work your ass off to become a lawyer. You can't expect to become a lawyer unless you have a degree. Passing the bar exam is the step into the elite field. If you don't pass the bar exam, you can't expect to become a great lawyer, can you? Everyone knows the steps needed for it.
Sorry for the rant, but every debate on an athletic physique turns into a question of drug use. I don't see why it should matter, considering it doesn't effect the person. Knowing if they use doesn't make your genetic potential any less, or more. You will reach as far as you want to. It's the person's own choice, and while i know that people aren't bashing steroid use, but still...
First off, i didn't start this thread to start a steroid debate, but i should have known that it would turn into that.
Every thread w/ a top bber, or top strongman, or top pler, always turns into "does he do steroids?" WHO CARES. They are the elite of their sport, so chances are that they do use.
Everyone knows when you get into strongman/pling/olifting/or bbing, that if you want to be considered "elite", and by elite, i mean a notch above everyone else, you need to use. Everyone who is in the top uses. You can bitch and moan about drug use in the sport, but the truth is that it is hush hush, but out in the open, because 99% of those elite lifters use them, and everyone who's slightly knowledable of the sport knows that they do use them.
So, if you're slightly knowledable, you should know that what you're getting into if you want to get to the top of the sport. It sucks if you don't want to use them, but you're not going to change it. Enter a drug free federation.
If i want to be a lawyer, i have to get a law degree. You have to work your ass off to become a lawyer. You can't expect to become a lawyer unless you have a degree. Passing the bar exam is the step into the elite field. If you don't pass the bar exam, you can't expect to become a great lawyer, can you? Everyone knows the steps needed for it.
Sorry for the rant, but every debate on an athletic physique turns into a question of drug use. I don't see why it should matter, considering it doesn't effect the person. Knowing if they use doesn't make your genetic potential any less, or more. You will reach as far as you want to. It's the person's own choice, and while i know that people aren't bashing steroid use, but still...
It IS impressive, no matter what. Their accomplishments are exceptional.
The fact of the matter, though, is that those accomplishments have an asterisk...and they DESERVE that asterisk.
It is probably true that 99% (or more) of those competitors use steriods. And, again, I agree that their accomplishments are amazing. However, I'm not so sure that it is commonly known in the same way it is commonly known that you have to pass the bar exam to be a lawyer.
If it WERE commonly known, we wouldn't see the same question in every thread!
The reason that asterisk is worth discussing is that PLENTY of people click on a link, look at guys like that, and WONDER IF THEY ARE NATURAL. Is there a problem with that? I'd contend that there is! Now, like LD, I could care less if the guys in the pic do steroids. They probably SHOULD be legal, or at least available with a licensing requirement or something.
If somebody who doesn't know the deal looks at that pic, it can easily lead to completely unrealistic expectations. "Wow...I've been training five years and I don't look ANYTHING like that!" So what do they do? Maybe they quit training. Maybe they unrealistically think ANYBODY can do that, so they go out and roid up chasing that physique that they STILL can't get even WITH roids. Maybe they do so in a less educated fashion...and let's face it, in the wrong hands, steroids are quite dangerous.
I think it is a shame that we seldom know what role, if any, steroids play in the physiques of people in the pictures we see. In the same way Barbie's measurements are probably not a good thing for young girls, young boys are subject to an increasing amount of unrealistic male physique role models.
First off, i didn't start this thread to start a steroid debate, but i should have known that it would turn into that.
Every thread w/ a top bber, or top strongman, or top pler, always turns into "does he do steroids?" WHO CARES. They are the elite of their sport, so chances are that they do use.
Everyone knows when you get into strongman/pling/olifting/or bbing, that if you want to be considered "elite", and by elite, i mean a notch above everyone else, you need to use. Everyone who is in the top uses. You can bitch and moan about drug use in the sport, but the truth is that it is hush hush, but out in the open, because 99% of those elite lifters use them, and everyone who's slightly knowledable of the sport knows that they do use them.
So, if you're slightly knowledable, you should know that what you're getting into if you want to get to the top of the sport. It sucks if you don't want to use them, but you're not going to change it. Enter a drug free federation.
If i want to be a lawyer, i have to get a law degree. You have to work your ass off to become a lawyer. You can't expect to become a lawyer unless you have a degree. Passing the bar exam is the step into the elite field. If you don't pass the bar exam, you can't expect to become a great lawyer, can you? Everyone knows the steps needed for it.
Sorry for the rant, but every debate on an athletic physique turns into a question of drug use. I don't see why it should matter, considering it doesn't effect the person. Knowing if they use doesn't make your genetic potential any less, or more. You will reach as far as you want to. It's the person's own choice, and while i know that people aren't bashing steroid use, but still...
If you really don't think people should care, then you should consider dropping the phrase "who cares?" from these discussions.
First, it's a challenge to people who care. Second, it's dismissive of those people's opinions.
Instead, try to let your arguements and points leave the reader feeling that they really shouldn't care.
I thought there was a good chance that the sport allowed steroids, but I don't know much about the sport, except for what I've heard Danny and GQ doing here. Again, if everyone knows, then they make their own decisions. My cheating bastard race car driver analogy is bad, in this case.
I still disagree with the physique part, though. Would you think it was less of an accomplishment if they had lyposuction, tummy tucks, etc.? I would not think less of their character, but would I be as impressed with how hard they'd worked? Probably not.
For instance, leaving these two guys out of it, we see a guy who goes from really fat to totally ripped and muscular in about a year. Impressive. Gives the impression that almost anyone can do that, if they work hard enough. Find out later he had lyposuction and removed 10lbs off his belly, sides, and lower back. Less impressive? I think so.
For instance, leaving these two guys out of it, we see a guy who goes from really fat to totally ripped and muscular in about a year. Impressive. Gives the impression that almost anyone can do that, if they work hard enough. Find out later he had lyposuction and removed 10lbs off his belly, sides, and lower back. Less impressive? I think so.
True for sure.
But where it gets iffy is this:
Person A: gains 10lbs of lean body mass over 6 months. And 20% increase in lift #'s.
Person B: gains 20lbs of lean body mass over 6 months. And 30% increase in lift #'s.
Person B used anabolics. What is more impressive? I sure dont know.
who cares if they used? it's still an awesome achievement. Even w/ all the steroids and hgh in the world, many people wouldn't be able to touch how far jesse has gotten in strongman.
Wait a minute...
Ok, say I have $1,000,000, but I got it by swindling people and stealing. Is it still an awesome achievement? Who cares how I got it, I got it.
The point here is even with anabolic support to get to that level takes hard work and dedication. I know people that have been on roids and gained almost nothing, its a booster, and it will give you the egde or push if you've reached a genetic limit or something, but with even with roids, to reach that level takes some hard work
Person A: gains 10lbs of lean body mass over 6 months. And 20% increase in lift #'s.
Person B: gains 20lbs of lean body mass over 6 months. And 30% increase in lift #'s.
Person B used anabolics. What is more impressive? I sure dont know.
i don't think the lypo thing holds true at all.
you can inject test, and it doesn't mean that you're going to gain muscle from it. There's so much more to it than that.
Have you ever seen that MTV True life w/ the people who use HRT and steroids? There was a gay dude who did steroids, worked out stupid, and looked like he hadn't touched a weight a day in his life.
Lypo is instant, as is any plastic surgery. W/ steroids, you don't get instant gratification, you need to work for it.
It IS impressive, no matter what. Their accomplishments are exceptional.
The fact of the matter, though, is that those accomplishments have an asterisk...and they DESERVE that asterisk.
It is probably true that 99% (or more) of those competitors use steriods. And, again, I agree that their accomplishments are amazing. However, I'm not so sure that it is commonly known in the same way it is commonly known that you have to pass the bar exam to be a lawyer.
If it WERE commonly known, we wouldn't see the same question in every thread!
The reason that asterisk is worth discussing is that PLENTY of people click on a link, look at guys like that, and WONDER IF THEY ARE NATURAL. Is there a problem with that? I'd contend that there is! Now, like LD, I could care less if the guys in the pic do steroids. They probably SHOULD be legal, or at least available with a licensing requirement or something.
If somebody who doesn't know the deal looks at that pic, it can easily lead to completely unrealistic expectations. "Wow...I've been training five years and I don't look ANYTHING like that!" So what do they do? Maybe they quit training. Maybe they unrealistically think ANYBODY can do that, so they go out and roid up chasing that physique that they STILL can't get even WITH roids. Maybe they do so in a less educated fashion...and let's face it, in the wrong hands, steroids are quite dangerous.
I think it is a shame that we seldom know what role, if any, steroids play in the physiques of people in the pictures we see. In the same way Barbie's measurements are probably not a good thing for young girls, young boys are subject to an increasing amount of unrealistic male physique role models.
I already addressed most of these topics in my original response, so i'll just leave it at that.
if you think swindling people and stealing is the same as steroids you're dilisional. Steroids is a victimless crime.
Is it? What if a roid user wins a competition against someone who didn't use roids and it was the roids that gave him the win? How victimless is it then?
I think there needs to be divisions in which roids are allowed and not hidden. That way there is full disclosure and both spectator and competitor can decide for themselves what camp to believe is the true measure of competition and victory.
Is it? What if a roid user wins a competition against someone who didn't use roids and it was the roids that gave him the win? How victimless is it then?
I think there needs to be divisions in which roids are allowed and not hidden. That way there is full disclosure and both spectator and competitor can decide for themselves what camp to believe is the true measure of competition and victory.
We already went over this.. in SM they are allowed in the levels these guys are at.
It will always be hidden because its not legal.. There would be huge liability if someone famous who used shared what they used.
Is it? What if a roid user wins a competition against someone who didn't use roids and it was the roids that gave him the win? How victimless is it then?
I think there needs to be divisions in which roids are allowed and not hidden. That way there is full disclosure and both spectator and competitor can decide for themselves what camp to believe is the true measure of competition and victory.
yes it's a victimless crime. How can you say stealing is as bad as taking steroids? So smoking a joint is wrong too? All are victimless.
There are divisions. There are drug free leagues. Everyone knows that the big plers do cycles. Do you think an average person can pull 1K pounds?
We already went over this.. in SM they are allowed in the levels these guys are at.
Then I care not. In truth, I don't follow the news on this, but if it's "allowed" and everyone gives the nod, then that is the way it is. Beyond that, I won't comment futher.
Holy crap. Gawk in amazement.
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