Do your ankles wobble during Single-Leg Deadlifts?
I'm very wobbly when I do single-leg deadlifts and am wondering whether this is true for other people, or whether it's just my weird feet/ankles? Recently I found out that I have a "heel pronation" problem, so it may be related to that. I haven't ever really neglected unilateral lower body exercises, and I have been doing lots of single-leg DL's as part of a dynamic lower body warmup routine for four months... but I don't see any improvement in my wobbliness. Just wondering whether this is likely structural or some weakness I need to work through.
Me, too. Mostly on the left leg and toward the end of a set.
The weight I can use has gone up considerably, but the unstableness seems about the same (once I get to about the same degree of tiredness and fatigue).
I usually start out kinda wobbly, especially on the left side (non-dominant side), but get into a groove as I go through the sets. I actually get better with additional sets. It's like my body figures out just how braced it's got to be to stay balanced. For me a big part of it is focus and just willingness to get as tight as you have to be to stay balanced.
Dave, I think wobbliness is pretty common with all single-leg movements. I would expect the balance aspect to improve over time though. Have you been doing them barefoot? That might help your ankle proprioception improve and then your balance would improve (I think).
Would it indicate a balance problem more than a stregth/stability problem? If your weight is centered over your foot, why would it wobble?
Balance is stability, is it not? It's not so much about strength I don't think.
The little muscles that stabilize you are what create balance, don't you think? I'm just brainstorming here because I know some people really have trouble with balance and there's some part of balance that's mental. It's partly about coordination too. I know balance is always harder on the non-dominant side and that's coordination. A big part of it is mobility. If your hip can't move through the desired ROM then as your body tries to compensate and bends at the low back, well, then you lose your balance. The core can't collapse without losing balance.
In Dave's case, it seems to me that his heel pronation suggests some lack of ankle proprioception. We do know from ankle injuries that if proprioception is lost that balance becomes problematic. You have to have the signals from the floor through your foot/ankle for your brain to know how to achieve balance (i.e., which stabilizing muscles to fire to keep you upright).
I'm with Lisa in that my wobbles start early and get better with additional reps/sets. Might it be a similar situation as when someone does ring dips for the first time? (I know I looked like I was having a seizure the first time I did those, but more sets helped the wobbles.) Now if we could just do something about the Wiggles
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I see the muscles as a stabalizing force, and balance more of a physics thing (e.g. you can balance anything if the weight is distributed evenly). So I guess I was trying to say that if you have better balance you don't need as much strength. On the other hand if your balance is way off you're going to have to be one strong mo' fo' to keep from wobbling. Although now that your bring it up Lisa, ROM and of course the muscles would play a role in just about everyone.
Sigh, I like things simple but I guess it never works out that way.
I see the muscles as a stabalizing force, and balance more of a physics thing (e.g. you can balance anything if the weight is distributed evenly). So I guess I was trying to say that if you have better balance you don't need as much strength. On the other hand if your balance is way off you're going to have to be one strong mo' fo' to keep from wobbling. Although now that your bring it up Lisa, ROM and of course the muscles would play a role in just about everyone.
Sigh, I like things simple but I guess it never works out that way.
OK. I see how you're looking at it. But since the body isn't rigid, you're right about needing more strength if your balance is poor. But looking at it slightly differently, isn't the lack of balance just a weakness in the stabilizing muscles? It's not so much that you need tons of strength to keep from wobbling if your balance is poor, but more that you need strength in the right places to create good balance. And these are often the very places where we have not been developing any strength or any ability to even get the brain to recognize the need to create neural connections.
My thoughts veer off into rate of force development capabilities (why single-leg work does increase overall athletic strength) as well as injury rehabilitation (proprioception issues that make developing those neural connections problematic). It's an interesting topic for sure.
I wobble if I do them with shoes on. I am super stable with shoes off. I was just doing those tonigh in fact and had to take shoes off for them and the pistols.
It's pretty common to see the majority of people not being able to stabilize themselves during any type of single leg movements. There are two issues at hand here.
1) Glute Medius weakness and corresponding tfl/adductor tightness
2) Ankle proprioception issues
To clean it up get your glute med to fire through various movements such as clams, side steps, bridges etc etc. For your ankle issues ( provided you do not have a history of ankle trauma) focus on gripping the floor with your toes and doing some peroneal work.
I have added these to the workouts for my athletes, and both times we have done them, their muscles cramped up during the exercise and they were really sore the next day. Not just a couple, but most of the team. Is this a result of the greater range of motion? We do plenty of Stiff-Leg deadlift, regular deadlift, and glute/ham machine, so I was surprised with the effects of the single leg DL.
Dave, I think wobbliness is pretty common with all single-leg movements. I would expect the balance aspect to improve over time though. Have you been doing them barefoot? That might help your ankle proprioception improve and then your balance would improve (I think).
Lisa, I do them barefoot, unless it's before running. Then I do them in my running shoes.
Now that I think about it, it seems to be more of a problem with the dynamic SLDL's. I don't remember weeble-wobblin' around this much with weighted SLDL's in a stationary position when using DBs or a BB.
It's definitely more of a problem on my left, non-dominant side.
In Dave's case, it seems to me that his heel pronation suggests some lack of ankle proprioception. We do know from ankle injuries that if proprioception is lost that balance becomes problematic. You have to have the signals from the floor through your foot/ankle for your brain to know how to achieve balance (i.e., which stabilizing muscles to fire to keep you upright).
I asked my podiatrist whether I could correct my heel pronation through exercises, and he said it was due to the structure of my feet and prescribed orthotic inserts for my running shoes. I still plan to work on the recommended exercises, because it can certainly only help... and I never know whether to believe the docs.
It's pretty common to see the majority of people not being able to stabilize themselves during any type of single leg movements. There are two issues at hand here.
1) Glute Medius weakness and corresponding tfl/adductor tightness
2) Ankle proprioception issues
To clean it up get your glute med to fire through various movements such as clams, side steps, bridges etc etc. For your ankle issues ( provided you do not have a history of ankle trauma) focus on gripping the floor with your toes and doing some peroneal work.
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been doing a lot of side steps, but I'll add the others as well.
I wobble like a mofo (they wobble right?) on dynamic SLRDLs too. I figured it was because of my weak tib ant. due to walking on the balls of my feet all the time.
I remember hearing that the only legitimate use of wobble boards was to help single leg instability, so i picked one up and tried it for a few months. My conclusion is that its a lot like telling someone the best way to learn how to swim is to be air dropped into the middle of the ocean and deal with it. I never got very much out of it, but maybe in conjunction with some of the other advice here it would be helpful.
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Lisa, I do them barefoot, unless it's before running. Then I do them in my running shoes.
Now that I think about it, it seems to be more of a problem with the dynamic SLDL's. I don't remember weeble-wobblin' around this much with weighted SLDL's in a stationary position when using DBs or a BB.
It's definitely more of a problem on my left, non-dominant side.
You probably know this, but just in case you don't, you know you aren't supposed to lift in running shoes because it flattens the cushioning right?
I have the same problem but I think it is caused by the fact that I am very bow legged. I have a problem getting centered over my foot and staying there. If I do them really slowly and concentrate on driving the foot into the ground then I'm ok but I cant do as much weight that way. I have the same problem on single leg squats. Do y'all have any advice for us bow legged folks?
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I have the same problem but I think it is caused by the fact that I am very bow legged. I have a problem getting centered over my foot and staying there. If I do them really slowly and concentrate on driving the foot into the ground then I'm ok but I cant do as much weight that way. I have the same problem on single leg squats. Do y'all have any advice for us bow legged folks?
Nothing besides just keep working on it. Do them slowly and concentrate and drive the foot into the ground. Seriously. You'll get better by just doing them.
You probably know this, but just in case you don't, you know you aren't supposed to lift in running shoes because it flattens the cushioning right?
I always lift barefoot, although I wonder why lifting in running shoes would degrade the cushioning any more than pounding down on them while running step after step after step...
Would someone please clarify, so that I might better understand and benefit from this discussion, which type of single leg deadlift is being referred to in this thread? As a reference, in Ian King's article over on T-Nation, "Death By Bodyweight", he gives two examples of single leg DLs. Which, if either, are y'all talking about here?
I'm very interested in this topic as I am currently trying to incorporate more unilateral posterior chain work into my routines. Thanks.
I think any type of single-leg unsupported movement would qualify for this particular discussion, including single-leg unsupported squats. BamaDave in particular is doing a series of bodyweight single-leg RDLs as part of his warm-up and his original question referred mostly to those. He's doing the following three single-leg RDL variations.
1. forward stepping single-leg RDLs with the heel of the non-supporting leg held against the glutes and hand on the supporting leg side reaching to the outside of the supporting foot
2. forward stepping single-leg RDLs with the support leg side's hand to the outside of the supporting foot, non-support leg lifted straight behind body
3. reverse stepping single-leg RDLs with the opposite hand to the outside of the supporting foot
Wow, those really, really need some cool, short names, lol.
it was probably use a new and novel stimulus, there "shouldn't" really be anything that would cause major issues in a majority of young, strong, athletes. Did you baby step them into the program (introduce maximal training loads gradually over a few sessions) or did you have them jump right in and go balls out?
They were told to use light dumbbells--we started out with 10 and 15 pound dumbbells--tho, i think some of them may have used 2 dumbbells instead of just one--I was busy spotting squatters, so I didn't see everyone. I may have to ask those that were the sorest how much they used.
Anyway, they were all sore in the hamstrings, about halfway between top of pelvis and knee. They pointed to a general area, but I didn't do any palpation, them being high school females, and me being an "old" man
I always lift barefoot, although I wonder why lifting in running shoes would degrade the cushioning any more than pounding down on them while running step after step after step...
I *think* it is because they are built to handle certain weight, and when there is a lot more it puts a lot more stress on the cushioning. Regardless I buy new running shoes once every 3-4 months.
To the original topic, when I first start doing sigle leg exercises again (say after a long power lifting phase) I can be pretty wobbly. I've always assumed that my muscels were now stronger, but the balance muscles hadn't quite caught up. After a couple sessions it goes away and things are good.
As far as shoes go, shouldn't you not be lifting in running shoes b/c of the high heel most of them have anyways?
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Thanks for your response Lisa. BTW, the drawing you edited in for #1 is just how I envisioned it from your well worded description.
I can see how one might experience a good bit of wobbliness if these exercises are stepped into, as in some part of a dynamic warmup. I've tried several versions starting from a stationary position and found that the ones with the greatest potential for creating sway in the center of gravity (i.e. #2) engendered the most instability for me. However, if I focused on initiating the movement by leading with the leg back first before flexing at the hips, I was much more stable. I experienced almost no instability with Ian King's SL Romanian DL version, not much mass being moved away from center.
MAXX, I started out with two 15 lb dumbbells and experienced moderate soreness in the same spot your athletes indicated, and I had previously been doing bilateral RDLs with considerably more weight, so I'm not surprised they did.
Do your ankles wobble during Single-Leg Deadlifts?
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