Low Rep/Low Set - JP Fitness Forums

chris_f · 03-07-2007, 06:19 PM

How effective at building strength are low rep/low set workouts. I'm not saying one or the other, but both at the same time.

If strength is your only concern, is there an added benefit to doing higher volume. For example, would 3x5 serve you just as well as 5x5, or better, if strength is your only goal?

I remember someone in here (kevin, maybe) talking about a 3x3 routine they did during the baseball season to minimize neurological fatigue.

Thoughts?

JimmyC · 03-07-2007, 11:32 PM

i dont think there would be any added benefit to doing more volume if strength is your only concern, other than making you more sore and fatiguing the cns more, preventing you from lifting more frequently, which is probably more important

i have pavel's book "power to the people" where the routine he gives is just 2 sets of 5, five days a week, for the purpose of gaining strength without gaining size

galya · 03-08-2007, 09:44 AM

We've had great results with 2x5 and 3x5, I would give it a shot if I were you

laxcdn · 03-08-2007, 12:02 PM

I think you are talking about this program. http://www.mikemahler.com/3x3.html

I am going to try this when I am better.

jijin · 03-08-2007, 12:48 PM

Take a look at CW's SFM on t-nation.com. It's got 3x5, 3x8 and 3x3 days. I'm half way through it and find it quite good for strength gains.

MAXX · 03-08-2007, 01:22 PM

I've been using almost strictly 3x3 and 3x5 programs with my athletes recently, and the strength gains are phenomenal. Granted, these are inexperienced females, but the gains have come much faster with a lower volume, plus the girls enjoy these workouts much more -- they are less taxing mentally.

LisaS · 03-08-2007, 01:53 PM

back to the original question -
you wouldn't use the same wt in 3x5 as 5x5 though, right?
if you are doing 3x5 and could do 4th and 5th set of 5 at same weight then your 3x5 sets are not heavy enough for real overload, right?

OldGuy · 03-08-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaS

back to the original question -
you wouldn't use the same wt in 3x5 as 5x5 though, right?
if you are doing 3x5 and could do 4th and 5th set of 5 at same weight then your 3x5 sets are not heavy enough for real overload, right?

That's what I would think.

MAXX · 03-08-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaS

back to the original question -
you wouldn't use the same wt in 3x5 as 5x5 though, right?
if you are doing 3x5 and could do 4th and 5th set of 5 at same weight then your 3x5 sets are not heavy enough for real overload, right?

I would agree with that......Let me pose this question: if you work out at an appropriate overload and intensity in 3 sets, how much more of a benefit does 2 more sets provide? I've never really looked closely at the 5x5 workouts, just a little on Starr's website, so maybe that question is answered somewhere.....

karky · 03-08-2007, 02:28 PM

more volume i guess. 5x5 is more strenght and size. while 3x5 is more strenght, since you then work with higher intensity.

chris_f · 03-08-2007, 06:45 PM

The reason i ask is a point that most of you hit on already... i'm just finding myself wicked taxed mentally after a 5x5 day. between work and school i'm wiped out already, and i was finding 3x8's energizing, but the 5x5's are killing me. I'm going to drop a few sets off each one. Thanks for the input, guys and gals!

EDOT: I'm actually struggling on the 4th and 5th sets... so i'm thinking my overload is right for 3x5, wrong for 5x5. At any rate, thanks all!

dos · 03-08-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXX

I would agree with that......Let me pose this question: if you work out at an appropriate overload and intensity in 3 sets, how much more of a benefit does 2 more sets provide? I've never really looked closely at the 5x5 workouts, just a little on Starr's website, so maybe that question is answered somewhere.....

If not more strength then at least greater work capacity.

gobbla · 03-09-2007, 03:54 AM

Doesn't Bill sort of cover this in the "2006 JP Fitness Summit DVD"?

galya · 03-09-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaS

back to the original question -
you wouldn't use the same wt in 3x5 as 5x5 though, right?
if you are doing 3x5 and could do 4th and 5th set of 5 at same weight then your 3x5 sets are not heavy enough for real overload, right?

You don't do a 5RM with a 7RM load, ideally you KNOW what the load should be and if you can hit 5 reps on your first and second sets with the same load (given adequate rest intervals) then usually you would need to adjust the weight for the 3rd, 4th and 5th sets. We do this a lot with what we call "half-stamina workouts". Milko came up with a 10x5 program that we cut in half for 5x5. You can check it out here: http://spiderstamina.com give it a shot using only the 87-77% for the 5 five sets. We've tested it with a bunch of people and it's a good way to focus on a move for a while. It all depends on how such programming would fit into your overall goal and needs.

MAXX · 03-09-2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

If not more strength then at least greater work capacity.

Coach, by this you mean a greater capacity for the athletes to perform a certain level of work for a sustained peroid of time? Thanks....

dos · 03-09-2007, 09:35 AM

Matthew · 03-09-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

EDOT: I'm actually struggling on the 4th and 5th sets... so i'm thinking my overload is right for 3x5, wrong for 5x5. At any rate, thanks all!

Use your 5RM for all sets of the 5x5. If you calculated right, you should only be able to get three or four reps on the last one or two sets, probably the last two sets. Then the following workout, use the same weight and try to get all five reps on all five sets. Once you can get all the reps, you're 5RM is no longer the weight you used for the first workout, because if it was you wouldn't be able to get all the reps - you'd be too fatigued (unless if you're taking WAY too long between sets, like, an hour rest. that's too long). So now your 5RM is higher. Use the higher weight for the following workout and the process repeats itself.

Because you're struggling with the fourth and fifth sets, you have the right weight. Now just get those last two sets done, and up the weight until you struggle again!

If you find it's wearing you out too much but you want to gain some strength, try doing 3x3 or 4x3 or something. You can still gain strength doing that, depending on how the rest of your program looks.

Remember that you need to consider all of the stresses in your life, not just your workout. So if life in general is really wearing you out, then a low volume/high intensity (3x3) workout will be sufficient, whereas a high volume workout might do you more harm than good. If life is good and you have few stressors, then a higher volume workout will be ok, and a low volume workout might not be enough.

MAXX · 03-09-2007, 10:08 AM

Coach Dos, how does rest between sets affect work capacity? I've been looking for research on the effects of rest time between sets when doing heavy weight, low rep work on primary lifts such as cleans, squat, bench, deadlift. I specifically want to learn more about the how the rest time effects the training effect and results. I got to thinking about this, because when I had my best max on bench, I was doing a lot of 3 rep training with a long rest period in between--about 5 minutes. Just curious on your thoughts....Thanks!