Pullovers a part of a program?

[Chris Correia]

Any comments on using pullovers as part of one's program, probably substituting for a different pulling exercise?

So, for instance, of three days, two would be horizontal and vertical pull (I'm currently using chinups and horizontal pullups) and the other would be pullovers.

I'm just not sure if and why to fit them in.

[Adam425]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by pullover. To me this means lying on your back on a bench and pulling a barbell or dumbell from over your head to above your chest, or doing a similar movement on your knees pulling down on a cable.

If this is the case, this as an exercise mainly for the chest and the serratus(sp?), not the lats, biceps and shoulders like the other exercises you list. I'm saying that it's not a substitute for either of those exercises, it's in a different category altogether. But it's a great exercise. I used to concentrate more on this sort of thing and had serratus in high school that really popped when I lifted my arms. I stopped worrying about exercises like this because I feel that they're not as functional as the compound exercises like chins and presses.

Just my $.02.

-Adam

[Chris Correia]

It hits the chest and serratus and such, but it is also classified as a lat exercise. I've seen it built into a few quality programs, but am wondering about it's exact place and purpose in a program, and particularly in comparison to the pulling movements.

[Alcoholiday]

if you don't know why you're putting them in there, then don't add them.

it's funny to read bbing articles where they talk about them stretching the ripcage.

[flying scotsman]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

It hits the chest and serratus and such, but it is also classified as a lat exercise. I've seen it built into a few quality programs, but am wondering about it's exact place and purpose in a program, and particularly in comparison to the pulling movements.

Chris, the only strength coach who I have seen use pullovers in a purposeful, planned way is Ian King.
To the best of my knowledge, he uses them is the early stages of a periodized program. Many of his programs consist of four phases, each 3-4 weeks in length and the pullovers tend to feature mostly in the first two phases. Essentially it is a single joint exercise intended to target the lats.

Generally he starts off using 2 dumbbells, one in each hand, using various rep schemes such as 21's and 1 1/2's or a straight set of moderately higher reps. Having a dumbbell in each hand allows you to observe differences between left and right; loads and range of movement.
Later on, when the load gets heavier, he reverts to one dumbell between two hands, either lying completely along the bench or across the bench.

Pullovers are a useful vertical pulling movement if you don't have access to a chinning bar; for example, if you just have a bench and some dumbbells.

[Lisa~]

I agree with what FS said. Christian Thibaudeau also claims that a pullover is useful to target the back if you tend to pull with your arms in rowing movements. He believes a pullover allows the arms to work less and lets you focus more on the back. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not, but it's at least a purposeful reason to include them if you buy that theory. I think you'd have to try the exercise to see if that theory holds true for you or not. He suggests a cable lat pullover for this purpose:

The Torso Solution, Back exercises for people with strong arms

I always found the DB pullover to be tough on my shoulders. If the trainee has any current or past shoulder issues, I think caution is in order. The cable lat pullover version felt more targeted to the back to me. I believe CT used that movement in OVT. I remember liking it.

The only other reason to include the pullover would be just for variety. That's a valid reason.

[Jeff Rage]

If you do a pullover with a bb, and use a wider grip, it tends to hit the lats more; a closer grip will hit chest more.

This is not a lift to do if you have ever had impingement problems.

[TimmyTM]

This is going to sound crazy, but pull-overs feel like they hit my triceps more than anything else.

[Chris Correia]

They are included in the Core Performance program and in one phase of the Afterburn program. After doing them in those programs, I just got to reflecting on the why of them being in there, in the context of other movements. I particularly wondered about any unique scapular involvement. Not being sure exactly what they target and how, that led to me wondering about using a chin/row/pullover triad over a three day workout scheme.

Sounds like they are an option, but since I don't have particularly big arms, I might as well rotate my chins and rows.

TimmyTM: They do get triceps as well (referencing my Strength Training Anatomy).

[Iceztiq]

yes, they do get the triceps as well. Try doing 4 sets of Db Lying Pullover, & train ur triceps 2-3 hours later.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Iceztiq

yes, they do get the triceps as well. Try doing 4 sets of Db Lying Pullover, & train ur triceps 2-3 hours later.

I tried a superset of pullovers and dips. Noticed it.