"You're Overtraining" T-Nation - Page 5 - JP Fitness Forums

dos · 02-09-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Maybe you both should have looked into it a bit more.

Q. We frequently hear that you do only one set per exercise. How did that come about, and how does it work in practice?

A. I started doing one main set per exercise only after I won my first Olympia in 1992.

*Flex mag, october 2004 (Ok I know its flex, but search it if you really feel like it and youll find much more. )

You could have googled this in about a minute if you took the time to look.

On regards to volume, people are going to think that they want to. I have no idea what everyone is even arguing about now haha.

How this....
"For the first few months of my training I used to train the whole body three times per week. I'd do the basic exercises like squats, bench press, curls and presses. From there I moved on to a split routine where I was training four days per week (Monday, Tuesday, Thursday & Friday).

Even when I was training four days per week, I felt overtrained, as if my body wasn't getting enough time to recuperate. I then cut back to training every other day, doing half the body in one workout. The next day would be a day off. Sometimes I felt even that was too much training and I'd cut my training back to three days a week with a two way split... This program is a good way to pack on size while giving the body the recuperation it needs to grow.

I don't believe in doing the traditional 15-20 sets per bodypart. That's too much work. I'll do one or two sets per exercise. If you haven't done the job by then, it's not going to happen.

The size of the muscle group and its different functions determine to a large degree, what I do. For chest and thighs, for example I would do three exercises (for one to two sets each). For back I'd do four or five since it's such a big muscle group. For biceps, triceps, shoulders and calves, I'll do two exercises."
Dorian Yates
Blood & Guts: The Ultimate Approach to Building Maximum Muscle Mass

Wanna call Dorain Yates? Go for it and ask him yourself.
01144 121 6437964

gobbla · 02-10-2007, 12:28 AM

A: Jason didn't say Dorian used HIT from the beginning.

B: Dorian didn't say that Dorian used HIT from the beginning. "He believes in one or two sets" "He started this after he won his first olympia."

C: Who cares?

Alcoholiday · 02-10-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

Doubt it...because a teenager who knows it all and is driven by ego will never let another guy get the last word.

just curious. why do you think age=ego? Not everyone who is young has a giant ego. I have a lot of respect for you dos, but i hate it when people change these discussions by making them personal. Making vast generalizions is never a good thing. Wouldn't you get offended if someone said that all olympic coaches in the US don't know anything because we haven't won medals in years? Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

edit: and i don't want this to sound like i'm taking sides, i just think it was a good discussion, and i don't want the discussion to turn into a dick measuring contest. We can all learn from eachother....

Keith Scott · 02-10-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

just curious. why do you think age=ego? Not everyone who is young has a giant ego. I have a lot of respect for you dos, but i hate it when people change these discussions by making them personal. Making vast generalizions is never a good thing. Wouldn't you get offended if someone said that all olympic coaches in the US don't know anything because we haven't won medals in years? Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

edit: and i don't want this to sound like i'm taking sides, i just think it was a good discussion, and i don't want the discussion to turn into a dick measuring contest. We can all learn from eachother....

I am not going to speak for DOS, but I dont think he was saying that teenage = ego. I think he was saying that a particular teenager =ego. Just like there are tons of great strength coaches out there with huge egos. Thats not the point.

The point DOS was trying to make in my opinion, is that maybe Frank should look at things more closely before he goes off telling the world a top level S and C coach is wrong when he didnt even look into things himself. This is not the first time Frank has done this and probably not the last. DOS has a WORLD of experience and knows his stuff. Sometimes I guess that means nothing to people and that is too bad. You are right, we could all learn a lot from each other. We could learn even more from a guy like DOS and a guy like Jason who have real world experience in the field. Afterall, isnt that what most of the people here are after?

With that said, everyone should have an opinion and can certainly disagree. But when someone comes off and says Jason's article looks like it was written by a 12 year old, we stop and ask exactly who is saying something like that. We find out that it was a 19 year old computer programmer (For the record, Frank will probably make a ton of money doing that, again...not the issue.) See the problem there?

UpNorth · 02-10-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Scott

We find out that it was a 19 year old computer programmer (For the record, Frank will probably make a ton of money doing that, again...not the issue.) See the problem there?

I usually don't take things off-topic but I hate to see someone perpetuate a stereotype -- its a pet peeve. The only job a 19 year-old programmer could get that paid "a ton" of money would be one where he is working 14+ hour days (unless he is a rare talent who has done something extraordinary). I've hired plenty of programmers in my day and I would never give any real responsibility (read: high salary) to a 19 year-old. And just for the record, like Dos, I've been programming to put food on the table since Frank has been alive

Keith Scott · 02-10-2007, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpNorth

I usually don't take things off-topic but I hate to see someone perpetuate a stereotype -- its a pet peeve. The only job a 19 year-old programmer could get that paid "a ton" of money would be one where he is working 14+ hour days (unless he is a rare talent who has done something extraordinary). I've hired plenty of programmers in my day and I would never give any real responsibility (read: high salary) to a 19 year-old. And just for the record, like Dos, I've been programming to put food on the table since Frank has been alive

Agree with you 100%

That is why I said "WILL PROBABLY", meaning in the future.

And for the record, I have been doing the same (working) since he was 2 or 3 years old.

Keith Scott · 02-10-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Maybe you both should have looked into it a bit more.

Q. We frequently hear that you do only one set per exercise. How did that come about, and how does it work in practice?

A. I started doing one main set per exercise only after I won my first Olympia in 1992.

*Flex mag, october 2004 (Ok I know its flex, but search it if you really feel like it and youll find much more. )

You could have googled this in about a minute if you took the time to look.

.

Didnt need to look Frank...I spoke with Jay about it and he (unless you are going to excuse him a lying now) told me exactly what Yates told him personally, and as DOS pointed out, read it from bits and pieces of his book (for the record, I never read the whole book)

Consider the source Frank "FLEX Magazine." They are in the business of selling high volume training routines, of course they are going to hype that stuff, whether it is true or not. I would tend to believe people that have spoken to Yates and people that even trained with him AND his book before I would believe FLEX magazine.

dos · 02-10-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

just curious. why do you think age=ego? Not everyone who is young has a giant ego. I have a lot of respect for you dos, but i hate it when people change these discussions by making them personal. Making vast generalizions is never a good thing. Wouldn't you get offended if someone said that all olympic coaches in the US don't know anything because we haven't won medals in years? Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

edit: and i don't want this to sound like i'm taking sides, i just think it was a good discussion, and i don't want the discussion to turn into a dick measuring contest. We can all learn from eachother....

Keith already said it....I am talking about one individual. Nowhere did I make a blanket statement about teenagers. As far as the Oly coaches go, I don't really know what that has to do with me. I am a strength and conditioning coach who works with intercollegiate athletic teams....I am not an Olympic weightlifting coach. I will refrain from posting on this thread any longer as I think we have worn out this topic.

John Izzo · 02-10-2007, 08:36 AM

I honestly can't believe this thread got 129 posts.

jvernacchio · 02-10-2007, 08:50 AM

After reading all of this someone has to just say...

Shut up and just go lift.

Way too much overthinking sometimes on some very simple principles.

Alcoholiday · 02-10-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

Keith already said it....I am talking about one individual. Nowhere did I make a blanket statement about teenagers. As far as the Oly coaches go, I don't really know what that has to do with me. I am a strength and conditioning coach who works with intercollegiate athletic teams....I am not an Olympic weightlifting coach. I will refrain from posting on this thread any longer as I think we have worn out this topic.

alright, i just read it wrong and took it the wrong way. my fault.

Milko Georgiev · 03-12-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

Hmmmm...a workout sequence based on relative-intensity and set volume....Milko is my new Euro-hero

P.S. that volume is pretty insane for a strength cycle though......

Dos,
yes, 5-reps s-stamina for long time is pretty insane.
Take a look at this page (it's under construction).
Variant for strength:
1 week 5-reps s-stamina (if necessary 1RM adjust)
1 week 4-reps s-stamina (if necessary 1RM adjust)
1 week 3-reps s-stamina (if necessary 1RM adjust)
1 week 2-reps s-stamina (if necessary 1RM adjust)
1 week 1-reps s-stamina
1 week rest
New max try!

eastcoastsurfer · 03-13-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxcdn

OK, so I eat 500+ a day, what rep/set scheme is going to give me maximal size? Dos already answered, so I got my answer

I just read that Mike Mahler MH article about the 3x3 with 2 exercises a day 4x week. So we have high reps/low sets, low sets/high reps, and low sets/low reps, then you have how many sets per workout, how many workouts a week, how many workouts a day, full body or split, etc. It is hard to figure out what to do when everyone has a opinion. That is why I get confused about what and how to do which workout.

I know you got your answer from DOS, but you should really check out NROL. 8 weeks strength, then 8 weeks hyper, then just bounce back and forth between the strength and hyper programs (then hit a fat loss program right before the summer :p ). Doing this I put on a lot of weight and strength. Went from 180ish to 205ish and am now cut back down to 198ish. All my big lifts also went up significantly. I think I would have put on even more weight if I could keep up with my eating.