"You're Overtraining" T-Nation

[Newlife]

I want to state that, I like seeing the thong pics...

It's all about intensity, and approaching near death on your last rep.

[eastcoastsurfer]

Originally Posted by Newlife

I want to state that, I like seeing the thong pics...

It's all about intensity, and approaching near death on your last rep.

LOL, don't get me wrong, I do to. I just think there is a time and place for those

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul

For the record, TC has personally given permission to me for users of this forum to post entire articles in quotes as long as a link to the original source is also posted.

Good to know. Thanks, JP.

[gobbla]

My biggest gripe is that it's simply poorly written. I had a hard time maintaining focus on what he was saying in reference to what. Do one heavy set per session...ok following you. Add weight to increase strength...following you. Do it in a hypertrophy range to improve hypertrophy...gotcha.

Now that said, will this be as effective working on one movement plane a week? Do you need to do one set twice a week? Three times? What's the difference between adding a rep a week and a few weeks later adding lbs? What if you CAN'T add weight to the bar but you can squeeze out another rep? What's the difference with having 2 sets @ near Xrm? Once, twice, three times a week? Why say comparing to bodybuilders is dumb and then compare to a bodybuilder?

I get the "do as little as possible to achieve the same goal". I get the "add intensity to improve". I don't get why it was formatted or presented in that way.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I'm not even sure he's talking about overtraining as much as too much garbage volume. From Thibs article today(really good one)

The problem stems from the term itself, which is composed of "over" and "training." Because of that term, individuals are quick to equate it to "training too much." So every time someone thinks that a routine has too much volume, frequency, or advanced methods, they're quick to pull the "overtraining" trigger. When someone is tired and has a few bad workouts he'll also automatically assume that he's "overtraining." In both cases this shows a misunderstanding of what overtraining really is.

Overtraining is a physiological state caused by an excess accumulation of physiological, psychological, emotional, environmental, and chemical stress that leads to a sustained decrease in physical and mental performance, and that requires a relatively long recovery period. There are four important elements in that scientific definition:

[Frank.S]

Written like a 12 year old kid. There is almost 60 questions in that article..

In some ways I agree with what hes saying,

But he seems to contradict himself about half way though. "Dont overtrain" and "Do fewer, harder, sets!". Overtraining is neural. Making an issue of muscular taxing leading to mental overtraining, without a single reference is a stretch to me.

And, although it has nothing to do with anything really. Dorian yates didnt even train this style until he was pro already. Maybe he should have looked into things a bit further.

Oh wait though.. Since he has experience im supposed to listen.

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

I'm not even sure he's talking about overtraining as much as too much garbage volume. From Thibs article today(really good one)

Yeah, I think thats what hes trying to get at too. Thats not at all how it comes accross though.

[dos]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Written like a 12 year old kid. There is almost 60 questions in that article..

In some ways I agree with what hes saying,

But he seems to contradict himself about half way though. "Dont overtrain" and "Do fewer, harder, sets!". Overtraining is neural. Making an issue of muscular taxing leading to mental overtraining, without a single reference is a stretch to me.

And, although it has nothing to do with anything really. Dorian yates didnt even train this style until he was pro already. Maybe he should have looked into things a bit further.

Oh wait though.. Since he has experience im supposed to listen.

See Frank this is the problem with the internet....everybody is an expert now. Experience means nothing right? The reason this one bugs me is that both times you decided to pull the sarcastic 'oh but I should listen becasue he's got experience' angle it's been with friends of mine (Ferrugia this time and Boyle last time). As far as I'm concerned these guys are making statements based on years of trial and error.....actual results in the real world with, believe it or not, real subjects.

Do you know how many bullshit artists there are out there these days? I'm talking about individuals that don't train a single person yet sell training programs to you guys? These are fabricated programs that have never actually been experimented on human beings yet you guys pay top$ for them. Don't lump Ferrugia and Boyle in with the rest of the pack...not even close.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Written like a 12 year old kid. There is almost 60 questions in that article..

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by dos

Do you know how many bullshit artists there are out there these days?

Dos, his name isn't even Frank.

[duff beer]

Your shoulders, knees, hips, etc., only have a limited number of sets in them for your entire life. Eventually they'll just wear out. It's just impossible for this not to happen; the body isn't an indestructible machine and will eventually break down. It's the natural process.
How many sets this is, nobody knows. But for the sake of this example let's just pick a nice round number and go from there. Let's assume that your shoulder has 10,000 sets of pressing in it for your entire fifty-year training career. (I plan on training that long and I hope you do too). We can hit fifteen of those a week and fast forward to our first shoulder surgery a lot faster than we'd like, or we can hit maybe two to six sets a week of heavy pressing and perhaps train healthily and injury free forever.

He is assuming that heavy sets will not wear your body out any faster than lighter sets. It's too bad that my shoulders disagree...

[Mahler]

Originally Posted by dos

See Frank this is the problem with the internet....everybody is an expert now. Experience means nothing right? The reason this one bugs me is that both times you decided to pull the sarcastic 'oh but I should listen becasue he's got experience' angle it's been with friends of mine (Ferrugia this time and Boyle last time). As far as I'm concerned these guys are making statements based on years of trial and error.....actual results in the real world with, believe it or not, real subjects.

Do you know how many bullshit artists there are out there these days? I'm talking about individuals that don't train a single person yet sell training programs to you guys? These are fabricated programs that have never actually been experimented on human beings yet you guys pay top$ for them. Don't lump Ferrugia and Boyle in with the rest of the pack...not even close.

Dos,
I am going to make a wild ass guess that Frank S. will need to stay out of your way at the Summit.

[Mike Robertson]

I choose my own pictures

MR

Originally Posted by Keith Scott

Ah...The writer rarely chooses the pictures that are in the articles. That is what TC and company (Editors) do when they get the article. The writer had nothing to do with those.

[Keith Scott]

Thats why I said "rarely"

I know you do Mike, you are big time!!

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by dos

See Frank this is the problem with the internet....everybody is an expert now. Experience means nothing right? The reason this one bugs me is that both times you decided to pull the sarcastic 'oh but I should listen becasue he's got experience' angle it's been with friends of mine (Ferrugia this time and Boyle last time). As far as I'm concerned these guys are making statements based on years of trial and error.....actual results in the real world with, believe it or not, real subjects.

Do you know how many bullshit artists there are out there these days? I'm talking about individuals that don't train a single person yet sell training programs to you guys? These are fabricated programs that have never actually been experimented on human beings yet you guys pay top$ for them. Don't lump Ferrugia and Boyle in with the rest of the pack...not even close.

Ok, these are the things I find wrong with the writing.



Jason pokes fun of doing more sets for hyperplasia. Well, lately this is actually all the rage in some circles of training thought ('the pump' as we call in can lead for the muscle to uptake more igf-1). Say you dont beleive in it, and tell me why, dont just make jokes.

His 'counter example' is just wrong. Yates trained HIT style far after he was pro. Great example.. someone who built 95% of their size/strength with volume training..

This article even talks about 'lifting in a hypertrophy range' of reps... Yes, even though fast twitch fibers have more growth potential. Better tell waterbury not to do 10 x 3 anymore if you looking for size.


I am someone who needs some science for almost anything.

Oh, and I just red the article again.. I dont think he is talking about overtraining in a sense of cns shutdown.. I think he is actually saying "you are training to much". Pretty bad word selection if this is the case.

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by Mahler

Dos,
I am going to make a wild ass guess that Frank S. will need to stay out of your way at the Summit.

To bad im not going to be able to make it buy the looks of things But honestly, I just like to question things. If I do manage to make it to the summit, I think id buy dos a beer. I respect the guy huge. Its just a habbit of mine to question absolutley everything.

[Frank.S]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't had a chance to reply. Just got in from a brutally long day of training. Unfortunately it is just the beginning of an insane week so this will most likely be the only post I am able to make. I will try to make it as short and to the point as possible.

As anyone who knows me understands, I am a very open minded individual. Alwyn Cosgrove is one of my best friends and is the same way. We talk every day and discuss training almost as frequently. There has never been a scenario that we feel is completely useless or is