Help: Rep & Weight Dilemma - JP Fitness Forums

WorkinOnIt · 01-23-2007, 10:38 AM

I'm currently doing ABBH and have had a few instances such as this:

on the 5x10 lifts, I'll get to the third or fourth set and only be able to perform 8 reps.

So, for the final one or two sets, should i lower the weight to a level that allows me perform a full 10 reps?

Or, keep the same weight and just knock out as many reps as possible. (I've tried it both ways and find if i don't lower the weight, the reps drop dramatically in the subsequent sets).

Also, whichever strategy is correct, should it be applied to all the programs in the book?

Thanks

gobbla · 01-23-2007, 01:21 PM

what happens if you pause for a few seconds? can you get the extra reps then?

WorkinOnIt · 01-23-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbla

what happens if you pause for a few seconds? can you get the extra reps then?

Gobbla,

If it's a 5x10 scheme and on the 3rd set i can only get 8 reps, I wait 60s and can manage the remaining two reps. But on the next set I'll be lucky to hit 5 or 6 reps, and i still have another entire set to go.

ParanoidAndroid · 01-23-2007, 01:44 PM

if you're talking about the dip/chin day, Chad said as soon as you don't get 10 reps:
Replace chins with supinated pulldowns
Replace dips with decline neutral grip DB presses

gobbla · 01-24-2007, 02:30 AM

If you just needed to catch your wind for a moment to knock out 1-2 reps, no biggie. If you can't follow the rep scheme for almost half the sets then it's too heavy. Drop the weight and rock on. If you're knocking off that much, that soon, you'll probibly be close to being worn out after the 5x10 with one drop in weight anyway

WorkinOnIt · 01-24-2007, 02:41 PM

Thanks guys--and yeah it is dip/chin day (good guess PA!).
It's actually my favorite split, but the correct weight often seems too light in the beginning--yet by the last set it's just right.

OldGuy · 01-25-2007, 06:38 AM

If it feels like it's too light at the beginning it is. You're not overloading in all sets. The 10th rep in the first set should be hard to get, hard enough that you may not get #11. You may have to drop weight in the next set, but only enough to make #10 hard again. And so on through all sets.

Lost Dog · 01-25-2007, 10:36 AM

Doesn't the book say what to do? Judging from his past articles, Chad tells people to pick a load in which you can just do the last rep of the last set. If you can't do all 10 (just barely) in that last set, then you went too heavy back in set #1.

It's highly unlikely that you could have a very challenging weight for the 1st 10 and the last 10 (in a 5x10) There's a lot of reps in between to cause fatigue. Likely, you will feel like you could have done 2-3 more at the end of the first set.

There are obviously different philosophies from different coaches. You could also start with a slightly higher weight and drop down in a later set OR keep the weight that's challenging from set #1 and progressively do less reps, but if that's not Chad's philosophy, are you really doing Chad's program?

gobbla · 01-25-2007, 11:06 AM

I'm with LD on this one. I'm almost positive Chad wants you to stick with the same weight with all the sets.

Oldguy is right in principle but I don't think it's used in this application.

The goal is to activate and fatigue muscle fibers. In theory you're firing the same amount of muscle fibers to lift 200lbs one time as you would 50 times. If you're lifting with your 80% 1RM for a lift you're activating enough muscle for strength and hypertrophy gains. You activate the muscle by lifting the weight, you fatigue it with volume. If you're doing the volume with the weight then you make gains. If you increase the volume or weight or both you create overload...anything above and beyond what you're doing RIGHT NOW creates overload.

IMO if you're working with someone that's fairly young and\or really athletic and\or are training for a real life (sports) application then you want balls out, max strength...push it all, all the time until I the intelligent trainer knows when you've had enough regardless of the scheme, then the max overload at every turn is certainly the way to go. For average joe trying to look a little better or lift a little more I don't think it's very smart.

OldGuy · 01-25-2007, 11:27 AM

So the first 2 sets of 10 @ 200 would give you 4,000 lbs volume.

The next 2 sets of 8 @ 200 would get you another 3,200 lbs.

But backing off to 190 and getting 10 for set 3 is 1,900 lbs. Backing off to 180 for set 4 for is another 1,800. But now you have 40 reps instead of 36. 4 reps and 500 pounds more volume. Gains made.

gobbla · 01-25-2007, 11:54 AM

at a higher intensity than the program was designed to give = burnout

Chad Waterbury · 01-25-2007, 02:42 PM

It's easier for people to gauge their progression if they use the same load for all sets - that's why I recommend constant loads for many of my programs. If you can't do, say, 5x10 with a constant load, the load is too heavy.

Many people have the problem of not being able to dial in the exact load right from the start. That shouldn't worry anyone - that's the nature of the game. My recommended loads are just starting points. There's no way I could pick the perfect load for everyone since the biochemical, nervous system, and muscle fiber properties are different for everyone.

The key is to find a load that forces you at/near failure on the last rep of the last set. So if your initial load selection didn't put you at/near failure on the last rep of the last set, adjust the load accordingly.

It's always better to err on the lighter side, initially. From there, follow the progression as prescribed.

WorkinOnIt · 01-25-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Waterbury

It's easier for people to gauge their progression if they use the same load for all sets - that's why I recommend constant loads for many of my programs. If you can't do, say, 5x10 with a constant load, the load is too heavy.

Many people have the problem of not being able to dial in the exact load right from the start. That shouldn't worry anyone - that's the nature of the game. My recommended loads are just starting points. There's no way I could pick the perfect load for everyone since the biochemical, nervous system, and muscle fiber properties are different for everyone.

The key is to find a load that forces you at/near failure on the last rep of the last set. So if your initial load selection didn't put you at/near failure on the last rep of the last set, adjust the load accordingly.

It's always better to err on the lighter side, initially. From there, follow the progression as prescribed.

Thanks for clarifying, Chad.

In my case, I do find it difficult to dial in the exact load right from the start, but I'm finding that it's getting easier to predict--especially when I am successful in keeping my ego in check.