another annoying muscle imbalance question

[chi sao]

Allright... I was doing some research and I found this article:

http://umanitoba.fitdv.com/new/artic...html?artid=588

Near the end of the article, he says "I measure how much people can bench press versus how much can they bent-over row. Always, when I’m looking at ratios they need to be at least within 85 per cent of each one, so if somebody bench presses 100 pounds they need to be able to bent-over row at least 85 pounds to have a decent ratio."

My max bench press is nearly 200 pounds... so this means I would need to at least do 150+ pound bent-over row to help with my (huge) imbalance situation. I'm sure he's talking about total volume though, meaning if your going to (using a popular program) do 10x3 (100lbs) bench press's with the volume equalling 3000 pounds total on the bench, you should either make the bench volume less to get near your bent-over ratio, or increase the amount of reps you do with the bent over's to get near (or more would probably be beneficial?) the volume of your bench press. The author of that article mentions you should do 3 times more work if you're not even near the 85% ratio.

Which brings me to my next question, is there a source (website) that provides things like this for all your muscle groups? For example, if you can curl so much, you should be able to (whatever exercise works the opposite muscles the curl works... deadlift?) perform another exercise to balance out the equation?


I found a good website that shows the opposing muscle groups but it doesn't show the exercises.

http://wellness.lattc.cc.ca.us/aquatics/musclebal.html

If anybody knows of a good resource, please be kind to let me know. I think I need to stay away from anymore pressing for a long time, and do the reverse movements alot more. My shoulders are sagging so much they are almost at the level of my chine and my pelvis is imbalanced and basically im one big mess :'<

[hypersonic]

Fust becuase they can do a certin % with there opposing muscles doesnt mean you have to. Work on muscles you need work done on.

[Newlife]

WTF are you trying to say?

[Chris Correia]

I don't know of other sites. But the solution is not completely volume, though volume can be part of the solution. If you could only row with 50 pounds, even if you did enough sets and reps to hit the same volume as that which are doing for your pushing/pressing, I think there is still a strength imbalance issue.

You might temporarily IMBALANCE a routine to let some movements catch up. So perhaps you should train the horiontal push just to maintain your current level of strength, but then focus on your pulling work.

Also note that some movements, like a bent over row, can be hard to do with higher weight because of the lack of support and instability given your body position. Perhaps a seated row is a better indicator.

I've heard the 85% rule a number of places, however, so it's probably not a bad ROUGH guideline for the AVERAGE trainee. However, I think this is a much more complicate topic than these simple statements. Particularly, one would want to look at anatomical/structural/postural issues with the trainee to better assess their weakness and imbalances.

With any luck, Bill Hartman will chime in.

[I. Kay]

I think I get the gist of what you're saying... here's my 2 cents, in a very simplified manner:

If your bench is far better than your row (like double it) and/or your shoulders are seriously rounded, and/or you've been doing far more chest work than back work, then do exactly as you said and back off the chest, increase your rowing.

Deadlifts, neck pulls, seated/bent-over rows, chinups, scapular retractions, rotator cuff work... get all over these for a while, and cut your benching to maintenance level (like once a week, 3x5 or something).

And sorry, I don't know a site like you asked about.

[Marykaa]

****************************** **********
QUOTE:
"I found a good website that shows the opposing muscle groups but it doesn't show the exercises.

http://wellness.lattc.cc.ca.us/aquatics/musclebal.html "
****************************** **********

maybe to get what you want, you could use your page in conjunction with this well known page :

ExRx.net

[DKing]

Percentages don't really work. The problem is that no two exercises are really perfect antagonists of each other. A bent row and bench press are different. The bent row involves stabalizing yourself while you pull. Not so in a bench press. You limiting factor in a bent row could be low back not midback.

A better thing to go by is simply look at total training volume and evaluate posture. If either is out of whack then you know you need to fix something.

Danny

[R]

"Which brings me to my next question, is there a source (website) that provides things like this for all your muscle groups? For example, if you can curl so much, you should be able to (whatever exercise works the opposite muscles the curl works... deadlift?) perform another exercise to balance out the equation?"

Charles Poliquin talks about this a bit in his "Achieving Structural Balance" article at another site...

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459454

I believe he's discussed it in either his "Question of Strength" column or his old "Ask the Guru" column on his own site (it's apy site now tho')

[R]

My thoughts on the matter are this...(I'll continue using the chest/back example):

If there is a severe imbalance (i.e. Bench is 200 and Chest Supported Row is 75). Drop ALL work for the overpowering muscle group (chest) and increase the amount of back work for 4 weeks. (If you absolutely MUST, to ease your ego, do 2X5 heavy inclines a week).

Medium imbalance (i.e. Bench is 200 and Chest Supported Row is 100), Work Back first in the week and chest last in the week. May even do back twice in the week, leaving chest at maintenace level. Increase the voume of back work significantly (approx 3-1 ratio of chest work).

Re-check strength ratios every 3-4 weeks and continue until the problem is corrected. (I believe Ian King says it will take at least half as long of time to correct the imbalance as it did to create the imbalance.

Slight imbalance (i.e. Bench is 200 and Chest Supported Row is 135), Work Back first in the week and chest last in the week. Do more of a 2-1 ratio to chest work. Focus on heavy pulling exercises esp. chest-supported rows.

Posture will be a BIG issue to look at. I just used weight ratios in the examples for easier description.

Anyway, my take on it. Hope it helped some.

R