I did overhead squats for the 2nd time today and just can't figure out why they are so much harder. Obviously the weight will go down because I can't hold a couple hundred pounds over my head for very long but even my form seemed to suffer. For some reason I have a hard time staying on my heels and squatting deep on overhead squats. And the sticking point seems to be my hip flexors because that's where I feel it when I try and get deep.
So why are my legs/hips reacting differently for overhead and regular squats? Could it be bad form? FWIW, on the last couple of reps of my last set it seemed like I held the weight a little further back and it seemed to feel better. But I don't know if that's because I was just really warmed up by then or if I was holding the weight too far out in front of me the first 2 sets.
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Because it is much more difficult on the total body to balance yourself when holding the bar overhead. I believe the weight should be held farther back, almost in the same position when finishing a snatch (slightly behind the head). It also helps put the weight in better balance in relation to your body. OH squats will show where your weaknesses are, including the hips.
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I did overhead squats for the 2nd time today and just can't figure out why they are so much harder. Obviously the weight will go down because I can't hold a couple hundred pounds over my head for very long but even my form seemed to suffer. For some reason I have a hard time staying on my heels and squatting deep on overhead squats. And the sticking point seems to be my hip flexors because that's where I feel it when I try and get deep.
So why are my legs/hips reacting differently for overhead and regular squats? Could it be bad form? FWIW, on the last couple of reps of my last set it seemed like I held the weight a little further back and it seemed to feel better. But I don't know if that's because I was just really warmed up by then or if I was holding the weight too far out in front of me the first 2 sets.
I'd say work on some hip mobility stuff and foam roll your hip flexors and entire hip/glute region pre-workout as well as stretching them out post. Tight hip flexors are going to contribute to poor form on any squat, especially an overhead squat.
If the shoulder mobility is there, definitely be holding the weight further back. If it's not there, work on it.
I agree with the hip mobility work, but also I've found that some heavier warm up sets help alot for example
45-8 warm up
95-8 warm up
115-8 warm up
135-8 1st work set
I think that because at least when you are getting used to this exercise form and mobility are the limiting factors so some extra warm ups can be very helpful in grooving the proper form.
-Ned
I did overhead squats for the 2nd time today and just can't figure out why they are so much harder. Obviously the weight will go down because I can't hold a couple hundred pounds over my head for very long but even my form seemed to suffer. For some reason I have a hard time staying on my heels and squatting deep on overhead squats. And the sticking point seems to be my hip flexors because that's where I feel it when I try and get deep.
So why are my legs/hips reacting differently for overhead and regular squats? Could it be bad form? FWIW, on the last couple of reps of my last set it seemed like I held the weight a little further back and it seemed to feel better. But I don't know if that's because I was just really warmed up by then or if I was holding the weight too far out in front of me the first 2 sets.
I think the OH squats are so hard because of balance. It's hard to keep the bar over your center of gravity while you're moving. You have to have excellent control of your body position. Any deviation in the saggital plane and you have to compensate to get that bar centered again. You probably did warm up and get into a better groove by the last set. You probably did have the bar too far out front for the first 2 sets. That'd be my guess anyway. It takes some excellent shoulder flexibility to keep the bar back.
This lift is a partial Olympic lift and done by O-lifters to improve their snatch. Somebody like Ryan or Gq would probably be able to give you some good tips on overhead squats. Also, take a look at Ryan's log. He puts up some good videos. Watch his snatches (not sure if he's got any just overhead squats on video). His videos are excellent.
I think one aspect no one has mentioned is if your lats are tight, it will screw the whole exercise up. Hip mobility is important with any squatting motion and if that is mastered but the OH squat still looks like shit, its becuase the lats (+ lack of shoulder scap strength) that are throwing you off.
Here's a prep exercise I used to perfrom after my shoulder surgery to prepare me for the OHS.
Stand with a 4 -5 foot dowel in front of a squat cage with the dowel overhead and walk forward so the dowel is touching the front of the cage frame. Then with elbows locked, squat down with the dowel riding the front cage frame all the way down. You will find some sticky points in your form. The cage frame acts as a linear guide so that you can find your center of gravity and be comfortable with the movement.
So, I have a weird thing: my form on OH squats is perfect (even Red says so) and everything feels great, but when I move the weight down (goblet, straight out in front, etc) the form goes hay-wire, knees hurt and I can't finish. Now, what's that about?
So, I have a weird thing: my form on OH squats is perfect (even Red says so) and everything feels great, but when I move the weight down (goblet, straight out in front, etc) the form goes hay-wire, knees hurt and I can't finish. Now, what's that about?
Wow, good for you!
Learning curve maybe?
You're putting the weight to the front of your center of gravity, which requires more core strength, so maybe core strength? If it gets to your knees (I'm assuming it hurts across the patellar tendon), then that's just your center of gravity moving forward, causing you to bring your knees forward of your toes more.
I really don't know, but is it a big deal? Do back squats. Goblet squats are not a requirement for any good program. They are more of a learning tool for some people. "Straight out in front" means what, plate squats for core work?
I think one aspect no one has mentioned is if your lats are tight, it will screw the whole exercise up. Hip mobility is important with any squatting motion and if that is mastered but the OH squat still looks like shit, its becuase the lats (+ lack of shoulder scap strength) that are throwing you off.
Here's a prep exercise I used to perfrom after my shoulder surgery to prepare me for the OHS.
Stand with a 4 -5 foot dowel in front of a squat cage with the dowel overhead and walk forward so the dowel is touching the front of the cage frame. Then with elbows locked, squat down with the dowel riding the front cage frame all the way down. You will find some sticky points in your form. The cage frame acts as a linear guide so that you can find your center of gravity and be comfortable with the movement.
I've never heard of that guideline before, John. I've got to try that for fun. Thanks.
I find that most people suck at this movement because they 1) dont have the shoulder strength for it, and 2) have tight lats. If you cant back or front squat with almost minimal lean, then Id keep working on that before an OH squat. A lot of times, people have push the bar way back to compensate for their forward lean (caused by tight hips or whatever). It makes my shoulders cry.
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I find that most people suck at this movement because they 1) dont have the shoulder strength for it, and 2) have tight lats. If you cant back or front squat with almost minimal lean, then Id keep working on that before an OH squat. A lot of times, people have push the bar way back to compensate for their forward lean (caused by tight hips or whatever). It makes my shoulders cry.
Yeah, GQ, I would imagine the front squat -- particilarly with hands on the bar/racked on the shoulders, not crossed arm -- would be a good indicator of lean, since leaning means that bar is going to off forward! Good point/admonition.
Yeah, GQ, I would imagine the front squat -- particilarly with hands on the bar/racked on the shoulders, not crossed arm -- would be a good indicator of lean, since leaning means that bar is going to off forward! Good point/admonition.
That's exactly why I like front squats better. I still have a slight lean at the bottom but it's improving each time.
OH squats are a problem, and probably for the reasons GQ says. I need to build up strength in the shoulder area before I'll improve on this. I may have to take them out of the MA routine for now until I get stronger.
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Why are overhead squats so much harder?
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