speed box squat and RDL form critique

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by mAtThEw

I think that flexibility is a big issue for me, too. I'm starting to incorporate more stretches and mobility stuff though so that should help. I'm basically following the Get Your Butt in Gear articles and Mike Boyle's article Hamstring Dominance, if you know of any others please let me know.

Those are both good article with excellent movement prep. Are you doing the over and unders? I've been doing those and love those! This is good stuff. Keep it up.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

GMs, your upper back is getting too loose on a few of the reps. I think you might want to use a lower bar placement. A huge thing i found worked for me keeping my upper back tight, it to keep the upper back tight, and think of flexing your lats. this is what will keep your upper back tight.

You're also looking down on the gms. Pick a spot in front of you, and keep your eyes focused on it. Looking at the ground is not going to help your upper back folding over.

Again I agree with Alco on your good mornings. Overall they look pretty good. You're very good at keeping your low back position solid. We usually harp on that so much! But your upper back dumps forward just a bit. It looks like you're struggling with the bar rolling towards your head or maybe you've exhaled at the bottom position. It's all part of the same problem. I can't do GMs without a very low bar placement. I think you really do need to use a lower bar placement for this lift, even if it's a bit uncomfortable. You've got to really pull the bar hard into your upper back and not let it move. Alco says to flex your lats and that's exactly right. You do want to aim for neutral spine, even in your cervical spine, but err on the side of head up a bit for a GM. You can't afford to let the bar roll towards your head. Stay tight. Again, get that big breath. Lock down your spine. Stay tight and don't exhale until you're through the toughest part of the ascent.

[Matthew]

First I want to say I like your lifting. I wish I had more clients at this level!

That just put a huge smile on my face, thank you!

Your scooping your hips back just a bit before you begin your upward motion. Watch the end of the barbell in the video. It should travel straight up, but instead it curves forward, back, then up in a bit of a backwards S shape. Can you see that?

Ya, I see what you mean about the backwards S shape. I do scoop my hips back a bit there, good catch. I'll remember those cues you mentioned and I'll try each one out next session to see what works best for me.

As far as width of stance, it's true that you'll get bigger loads wiith a lower bar position and wider, toed out stance. If that's your goal, then give it a try. You squat looks more like a high bar full squat than a powerlifting squat. Is changing your whole squat style what you're trying to do? They both have their place and are both good exercises.

It is a high bar full squat, that's what I've always done and I'm just use to it. I am trying to switch over though. Like I mentioned earlier I'm going to slowly work on bringing the bar down and moving my feet out. I can't just switch right over in one session though, I'm too use to squatting this way. I have to ease into it if I want to do it right, is what I'm trying to say.

Those are both good article with excellent movement prep. Are you doing the over and unders? I've been doing those and love those! This is good stuff. Keep it up.

I LOVE the over/unders! I get weird looks when I do them for some reason, though.
Anyway, do you think the movements in those two articles are enough, or are there others that you would suggest? Maybe something specific to me, now that you've seen my squat?

I'll try lowering the bar for the GMs. I use the same bar placement I use for squats, which is very high, because that's the only place I could get it to feel comfortable while standing. The problem with that, like you said, is that the bar rolls forward at the bottom. I haven't exhaled at the bottom, I use to but now I hold my breath until I'm almost finished the rep. It's just bar placement, I'll work on bringing that down.

Thank you so much for your responses Lisa, very helpful like always.

[Matthew]

Just thought I'd mention, conventional deadlift videos will be posted Thursday or Friday, depending on what time I get home Thursday.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted in this thread. You're all really being a huge help to me, thank you.

[flying scotsman]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

...you're not as tight as you could be. This shows up at the change of direction at the bottom of the squat. Your scooping your hips back just a bit before you begin your upward motion.

Good call Lisa. I have a tendancy to do this and wondered if it was because a) I wasn't tight enough, and b) I wasn't getting enough assistance from the hip extensors, primarily the glutes.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by flying scotsman

Good call Lisa. I have a tendancy to do this and wondered if it was because a) I wasn't tight enough, and b) I wasn't getting enough assistance from the hip extensors, primarily the glutes.

Could be either one or both.

Matthew, I think those two articles cover plenty of glute activation movements. It's hard for me to say exactly what I'd give you if you were my client. Your squats are deep and your back position looks good, so it's hard for me to see any lack of mobility in your videos. I'd give you glute activation, but you're doing that already. I think you've got it covered.

Play around with your low bar position. Remember that the difference between a low bar and a high bar position is only 2-4". A low bar position has the bar resting just above the spine of the scapulae. A high bar position is on top of the upper traps. In Mike Robertson's Getting to Know the Squat article there's a good picture of a high bar position. You can see that he's got room to move the bar down a couple of inches before it gets uncomfortable.

[Lisa~]

Matthew,

Take a look at the arched back good morning video from Ball State. Look where he carries the bar. Watch how tight he stays, especially at the change of direction.

[Matthew]

Matthew, I think those two articles cover plenty of glute activation movements. It's hard for me to say exactly what I'd give you if you were my client. Your squats are deep and your back position looks good, so it's hard for me to see any lack of mobility in your videos. I'd give you glute activation, but you're doing that already. I think you've got it covered.

As long as I'm not missing anything huge, I'm happy. Thanks Lisa.

Play around with your low bar position. Remember that the difference between a low bar and a high bar position is only 2-4". A low bar position has the bar resting just above the spine of the scapulae. A high bar position is on top of the upper traps. In Mike Robertson's Getting to Know the Squat article there's a good picture of a high bar position. You can see that he's got room to move the bar down a couple of inches before it gets uncomfortable.

That is a good picture, I'm glad you posted that. It does show just how high the high bar position is. I'll work with the empty bar tonight and see if I can lower it those couple inches without losing the bar.

That video was good to watch, too. I can see a lower bar position will definitely help with the goodmornings, as well as staying tight. Thanks Lisa.

[Matthew]

This is embarrassing... my deadlift. I thought my form was a lot better than this, but I can see a lot of errors already. In the first video you can see that as I lower the bar and my knees are coming forwards, I actually move my knees back for a second to let the bar pass. On the second one I almost stopped doing that (I like to watch the videos in between sets so I picked up on it) but not completely, and you can tell I'm raising my hips before the bar even moves. Same with the third one. I can see some other things too, but I don't want to have all the fun

Here are the videos. Thanks guys.

[Matthew]

Oh ya, once again I apologize for the quality of the video and for the angle I took it from. It was the only place I could get my entire body into the shot, as I demonstrated in the first video:p

[Mike Robertson]

I don't think those are nearly as bad as you think they are. We're all our worst critics (myself included)!

Here's some food for thought:

- Try go get your hips a smidge lower; not much, just a smidge. This will help you get more leg drive, which leads us to the next point

- Lock your back in and make it rigid. You have to use some back now because your hips are high and you aren't getting enough leg drive to really get that sucker going. Hips down a little lower to start, and push through the heels to activate the posterior chain (there was only one rep in the last set where you REALLY get on your toes, and I think you know which one that was!)

- Next, think about pulling back into your body more - when the bar drifts, you get out of that optimal pulling position and are forced to use your back.

- Last, as with the RDL's, finish with your glutes - think about trying to hump the bar.

That's a lot of info, so process it and when you pull next think about this:

- Sit back, lock the back in SOLID
- Drive thru the heels and pull BACK
- Finish with the hips

If you have a coach or training partner, you think about the start and initiation of the pull, and have them shout "Hips" as you complete the lift.

Good luck and good training!

MR

[Lisa~]

Matthew, how can I add anything to that fantastic critique from Mike?

In every lift, "get tight" has come up in some way. So that's a lesson for all your lifting. Harder and more prolonged bracing in your core, always.

[Kevin T.]

Originally Posted by Mike Robertson

- Last, as with the RDL's, finish with your glutes - think about trying to hump the bar.

Quite possibly the greatest piece of advise ever :p

Also, I try and keep my shoulders behind the bar to start. You were borderline, but maybe moving them back just a little bit would help a bit. I think that might just happen when you sit a little lower, as MR advised. Just food for thought!

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by Mike Robertson

I don't think those are nearly as bad as you think they are. We're all our worst critics (myself included)!

Here's some food for thought:

- Try go get your hips a smidge lower; not much, just a smidge. This will help you get more leg drive, which leads us to the next point

- Lock your back in and make it rigid. You have to use some back now because your hips are high and you aren't getting enough leg drive to really get that sucker going. Hips down a little lower to start, and push through the heels to activate the posterior chain (there was only one rep in the last set where you REALLY get on your toes, and I think you know which one that was!)

- Next, think about pulling back into your body more - when the bar drifts, you get out of that optimal pulling position and are forced to use your back.

- Last, as with the RDL's, finish with your glutes - think about trying to hump the bar.

That's a lot of info, so process it and when you pull next think about this:

- Sit back, lock the back in SOLID
- Drive thru the heels and pull BACK
- Finish with the hips

If you have a coach or training partner, you think about the start and initiation of the pull, and have them shout "Hips" as you complete the lift.

Good luck and good training!

MR

Thanks a lot Mike, I really appreciate your advice.

I want to ask you about the line that I put in italics. Do I want my shoulders past the bar (the bar would be between my shoulders and my hips), or do I want the bar past my shoulders? I have always been confused about this and decided for some reason that the bar should be past my shoulders, which is what keeps me from pulling the bar towards my body more. (notice in the video my shoulders are past the bar, I always thought I just failed at doing it properly )

[Matthew]

Ok, Kevin was reading my mind and answered before I even posted the question. That's a little creepy.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! lol

[Matthew]

Lisa, my core is definitely my weak point and I'm trying to bring that up. I'll keep it in my mind on every lift to brace my core like it's a max attempt. Thanks