If you saw my log you know that - Yes, I am in DL hell again.
I wrenched my lower back during friday evening's workout doing DL's. Mind you, this is not the first..but the second time I have entered the bowels of this place of torment in the last year. Despite concentration to keep perfect form..my form must have faultered a bit. I'm not sure. Because of the past injury, I use DB's instead of a BB. I am able to keep the weight more centered and, in my mind, avoid doing what I did friday. I was pulling 90# DB's.
I intend for it to be my last visit here and am looking for 2 things.
First - What exercises will strengthen my low back muscles. I'm thinking they must be a bit weak. duh
Second - What stretches/warm up exercises do you recommend before intense DL's to help avoid back strains.
Once I heal, I will again, slowly, incorporate some DL's back into my program. But I will most likely stay light on the weights and just add reps. I dunno..I'm open to criticism/ass kickings/sympathy...whatever.
I can honestly say that in 2006 I reached a personal best...or worst...
Worse pain I have ever had in my life - trying to get out of bed friday night.
Oh..ps..my wife had back surgery tuesday...so I'm a huge help to her now.
maybe you ought to lay off the DL's bud. if they keep being mean to you, it might not be worth it! do you do any direct core work?
I've been doing some reverse hypers for ab training. I do squats...
But I guess that's what I'm looking for here. Suggestions for core work that might help me avoid future injury. I obviously have a weakness back there.
Strengthening: Planks (side and front) and Bird-Dogs
Magnificent Mobility has great lower back/hips warmups.
Thanks Ian. I hate that I missed the last JP fitness summit. I bet I would know this stuff.
Planks. OK. Any recommendations on how long to perform them..set rep/time scheme?
Curious.. I've never understood how static holds develop strength. I see so much discussion about range of motion related to performing exercises. There's like..no range of motion there. How's that work I wonder? Hope that's not a dumb question.
Thanks Ian. I hate that I missed the last JP fitness summit. I bet I would know this stuff.
Planks. OK. Any recommendations on how long to perform them..set rep/time scheme?
Curious.. I've never understood how static holds develop strength. I see so much discussion about range of motion related to performing exercises. There's like..no range of motion there. How's that work I wonder? Hope that's not a dumb question.
Jimbo,
You want a lot of mobility (so big ROM) in your hips but you want no motion in your lumbar spine (so core stability). Working planks and other core stability movements teaches you to brace under pressure for the length of a set. To improve your deadlift you will need to improve the ability of your core to stabilize your spine and improve your hip mobility and probably your glute strength as well.
Try planks 3 x 60 seconds and side planks 3 x 30-45 seconds. If that's doable, then next time add other core stability work like T-push-ups, elbow touches, and renegade rows. Then check into some hip mobility work. The Magnificent Mobility DVD is what you need. Work on single-leg hip dominant movements, setting regular deadlifting aside for a while.
Not sure if you saw this PDF (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...ofDeadlift.pdf) over on the CF site last month, but it was good reading for me as, like you, I'll tweak my back every so often doing DLs or power cleans or something with a similar motion.
__________________ No Magic Pill (the log)
My Movember page (yes, I'm slacking on pictures)
You want a lot of mobility (so big ROM) in your hips but you want no motion in your lumbar spine (so core stability). Working planks and other core stability movements teaches you to brace under pressure for the length of a set. To improve your deadlift you will need to improve the ability of your core to stabilize your spine and improve your hip mobility and probably your glute strength as well.
Try planks 3 x 60 seconds and side planks 3 x 30-45 seconds. If that's doable, then next time add other core stability work like T-push-ups, elbow touches, and renegade rows. Then check into some hip mobility work. The Magnificent Mobility DVD is what you need. Work on single-leg hip dominant movements, setting regular deadlifting aside for a while.
Thanks for that Lisa. Makes sense, very detailed and useful info! I'm going to be laying hands on MM after the new year. Santa stole all my $$
I'm still a bit stiff and sore now..so I will wait till next week before I try anything. This scared me. Hurt really really bad. I want NO repeats.
I was doing fine with DL's until I hit the 90# DB's. Fact is, two days prior, I had done 85# DB's and thought it wasn't bad at all. I never felt it in my low back at all. Upped it 5# two days later and friggin tore myself up. Sheesh. No warning.
I'll be replacing the DL's and probably the Squats for a few weeks.
Not sure if you saw this PDF (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...ofDeadlift.pdf) over on the CF site last month, but it was good reading for me as, like you, I'll tweak my back every so often doing DLs or power cleans or something with a similar motion.
That looks interesting. I'll have time to thouroughly read that tomorrow. Thanks
So how's your Deads? You still doing them and avoiding injury?
That looks interesting. I'll have time to thouroughly read that tomorrow. Thanks
So how's your Deads? You still doing them and avoiding injury?
My DLs now are better form-wise, especially after having read that PDF I sent you. I last had a really bad pull several months ago (mid-summer?), and once I worked that out (stretches, lots of foam roller stuff, beer ), I concentrated on running until a month or so ago while doing minimal strength work. I never have put up big numbers on DLs as I usually focus more on overall athleticism than pure strength or size, but I'm right back up where my ceiling has been for a year or so. It took me a few workouts to lock in my form and shake the willies I had for DLing, but I feel confident that I can go heavier before too much longer. However, I'm still apprehensive about Olympic lifts and will only do reps with much-lighter-than-I-could-be-doing weight for awhile since that's how I've had my worst pulls. I want to strengthen my core some more as well, meaning lots of wood choppers, Swiss ball work, and the like.
__________________ No Magic Pill (the log)
My Movember page (yes, I'm slacking on pictures)
Try planks 3 x 60 seconds and side planks 3 x 30-45 seconds. If that's doable, then next time add other core stability work like T-push-ups, elbow touches, and renegade rows. Then check into some hip mobility work. The Magnificent Mobility DVD is what you need. Work on single-leg hip dominant movements, setting regular deadlifting aside for a while.
Any recommendations on how often?
__________________
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Uh...I know better than this...all the above stuff is obviously correct and from way smarter people than me......but....
...what else do you do? How do you spend your day? How do you move throughout the day? There is a gap there..one option...
Take up one of the boring martial arts. One of the ones that aren't cool and you're not meant to do. Say...Traditional Karate. Roundhouse kicks. Or as they say Mawashageri. Teaches you an awareness of your core you would never have had before, in a gradual and safe way. Your core will develop exponentially, but more importantly you will be aware of it step by step.
No matter what you do in life physically...you will benefit from this.
I'm not recommending this for self defence - but your back will feel better - and you'll be a damn site better at deadlifts because you are more aware of your body.
An opinion based on personal experience, author accepts no responsiblility for daftness or lack of education of post...real world experience and goodwill are the only recommendations herein.
__________________
Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. -- Sidney J. Harris
To begin, I'd say start with Split Squats (also known as static lunges) or Bulgarian Split Squats. Step-ups too. I would say don't do regular lunges until your back is 100% again. Very often there is a lot of upper-body movement in the move back to the standing position. Some people really get a lower back jolt from those.
But the SS, BSS and Step-ups should be good for ya, along with the bird-dogs and planks.
When I tweaked my back real bad doing deadlifts I went to the chiropractor 3 times in 2 weeks, and stretched. The chiropractor would give me a 1 hour massage then adjust my back. After those 2 weeks I went back to lift and my dl was up 30 pounds! Get some good help if you can and lay off the exercise til it feels right.
Not sure if you saw this PDF (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...ofDeadlift.pdf) over on the CF site last month, but it was good reading for me as, like you, I'll tweak my back every so often doing DLs or power cleans or something with a similar motion.
Excellent, excellent article. Thanks for posting that! I'm still learning to and this was very instructive.
What are some single leg dominant movements that you would recommend? Are you talking lunges?
Single-leg hip dominant leg exercises, with HIP being the most important word in that phrase.
I do not mean lunges or Bulgarian split squats. ou need to be working on glute activation and glute strength, not continuing to increase your quad dominance. So I mostly do not agree with Ian suggestions ( first time for everything huh!). I'd want you to do single-leg back extensions, single-leg RDLs, and King deads.
Hip focused step-ups would work - high step, drive upward from the forward heel.
Birddogs would make an excellent warm-up glute activation movement along with glute bridging.
Hip-dominant or glute activation/strength? Why not work on box squats then?
Box squats are certainly hip dominant and require the glutes to fire. I took a more conservative approach with my answers because Jimbo said he planned to forgo deads and squats for a time while his back injury healed.
Not sure if you saw this PDF (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...ofDeadlift.pdf) over on the CF site last month, but it was good reading for me as, like you, I'll tweak my back every so often doing DLs or power cleans or something with a similar motion.
This is a bit of a hijack, sorry Jimbo, but it is at least about deadlifting! :p
This is a brilliant article and I hope everyone will take the time to read it and understand it. Mark Rippetoe's explanation of why the shoulders should be in front of the bar at the set-up for a deadlift made sense to me, but it also brought up questions for me. I have often quoted Dave Tate's comments about getting your shoudlers behind the bar and leveraging your weight to begin the pull. So I contacted Eric Cressey with my questions and I wanted to share his comments with you guys.
He responded that Crossfit also teaches a lot of Olympic lifts and that trying to compare the two deadlift styles was like comparing apples to oranges. To me he wrote:
Quote:
To add to this, heavier guys can get away with starting behind the bar, but us lighter guys need to get right up over it (helps generate some momentum because we don't have as much body weight to just lean back on).
Obviously, sumo pullers will start a bit further back than conventional pullers.
I have understood that there are two styles, but I think what's more solidified in my own mind is that a person of average size will probably get a better line of pull if they get up over the bar (as Eric puts it).
Jimbo, you've received some great advice, but I might add that you might want to get checked out by a medical professional as well. Go see your primary physician and get a referral to physical therapy if for no other reason than having someone evaluate your specific mechanics along with what is tight and what is weak. I say this because if your lumbar spine is somewhat flexed, doing additional core work without correcting your spinal position could potentially put your lumbar spine at MORE risk for injury down the line. Often we need outside help when it comes to things like positioning and motor contol activities. PM me if you need help finding a GOOD PT in your area ...
Uh...I know better than this...all the above stuff is obviously correct and from way smarter people than me......but....
...what else do you do? How do you spend your day? How do you move throughout the day? There is a gap there..one option...
Take up one of the boring martial arts. One of the ones that aren't cool and you're not meant to do. Say...Traditional Karate. Roundhouse kicks. Or as they say Mawashageri. Teaches you an awareness of your core you would never have had before, in a gradual and safe way. Your core will develop exponentially, but more importantly you will be aware of it step by step.
No matter what you do in life physically...you will benefit from this.
I'm not recommending this for self defence - but your back will feel better - and you'll be a damn site better at deadlifts because you are more aware of your body.
An opinion based on personal experience, author accepts no responsiblility for daftness or lack of education of post...real world experience and goodwill are the only recommendations herein.
Good advice. My job...desk job. Prior to getting back to lifting 6 weeks ago I was doing a lot of running. Have been lifting/running for the last 3 years. So I'm not totally new to it. Just sucky at Deads and, as you point out, probably need some activity to strengthen my core and help with flexability. Got me thinking.
To begin, I'd say start with Split Squats (also known as static lunges) or Bulgarian Split Squats. Step-ups too. I would say don't do regular lunges until your back is 100% again. Very often there is a lot of upper-body movement in the move back to the standing position. Some people really get a lower back jolt from those.
But the SS, BSS and Step-ups should be good for ya, along with the bird-dogs and planks.
This is a bit of a hijack, sorry Jimbo, but it is at least about deadlifting! :p
This is a brilliant article and I hope everyone will take the time to read it and understand it.
No highjack at all. Everyone's input here is great.
It is a VERY thorough article on Deadlifting. Not sure my little brain is spongey enough to take it all in. I've read it once..and will read it again.
The one thing I cam away with..With all the mechanics involved in doing a deadlift, I'm thinking I jumped in too heavy too fast. I've never been accessed by a pro for weaknesses and flexability issues. Always lifted like the lonerange that I am. UCONJULIE made a really good point about this and I'm thinking after the first of the year (tax time) I can find some $$ to give myself a gift of that. I know I need to.
This is a bit of a hijack, sorry Jimbo, but it is at least about deadlifting! :p
This is a brilliant article and I hope everyone will take the time to read it and understand it. Mark Rippetoe's explanation of why the shoulders should be in front of the bar at the set-up for a deadlift made sense to me, but it also brought up questions for me. I have often quoted Dave Tate's comments about getting your shoudlers behind the bar and leveraging your weight to begin the pull. So I contacted Eric Cressey with my questions and I wanted to share his comments with you guys.
He responded that Crossfit also teaches a lot of Olympic lifts and that trying to compare the two deadlift styles was like comparing apples to oranges. To me he wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cressey
To add to this, heavier guys can get away with starting behind the bar, but us lighter guys need to get right up over it (helps generate some momentum because we don't have as much body weight to just lean back on). Obviously, sumo pullers will start a bit further back than conventional pullers.
I have understood that there are two styles, but I think what's more solidified in my own mind is that a person of average size will probably get a better line of pull if they get up over the bar (as Eric puts it).
Awesome follow-up, Lisa, thanks! I always tried to DL with my shoulders above or behind the bar and always had trouble. A few times when I thought I messed up by getting too far over the bar, I had better form and strength but kept trying to slide behind the bar. After reading the article and hearing EC's comments, I feel a lot better about where I set up now.
__________________ No Magic Pill (the log)
My Movember page (yes, I'm slacking on pictures)
I wonder if the fact that I was using DB's to do the deads contributed to my low back strain. It occured to me that I'm having to go lower to reach them than a BB. Bet that had a bit to do with it. Maybe DB's isn't a good idea unless you raise them somehow.
Just a random thought I had. Be careful out there. Don't follow Jimbo.:p
DL Hell
), I concentrated on running until a month or so ago while doing minimal strength work. I never have put up big numbers on DLs as I usually focus more on overall athleticism than pure strength or size, but I'm right back up where my ceiling has been for a year or so. It took me a few workouts to lock in my form and shake the willies I had for DLing, but I feel confident that I can go heavier before too much longer. However, I'm still apprehensive about Olympic lifts and will only do reps with much-lighter-than-I-could-be-doing weight for awhile since that's how I've had my worst pulls. I want to strengthen my core some more as well, meaning lots of wood choppers, Swiss ball work, and the like.
first time for everything huh!). I'd want you to do single-leg back extensions, single-leg RDLs, and King deads.
Linear Mode
