I've recently read some articles and posts on this forum from experts (specifically Cressey) who suggest that extreme flexibility may actually be a liability to strength development. This was discussed specifically in relation to athletes doing yoga.
As someone who is interested in yoga and weightlifting, I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts. Is it disadvantageous to be extremely flexible if your goal is to increase strength?
Extreme levels of flexibility make it very hard to stabilize heavy weight. There is a functional amount of flexibility/mobility needed for any specific sport or endeavor. If you want to squat or deadlift heavy, then being hyper-mobile in your hips will limit your progress as much or even more than being too tight in your hips. There's always a balance that is required. The hyper-mobile joints are at great risk of injury.
Extreme levels of flexibility make it very hard to stabilize heavy weight. There is a functional amount of flexibility/mobility needed for any specific sport or endeavor. If you want to squat or deadlift heavy, then being hyper-mobile in your hips will limit your progress as much or even more than being too tight in your hips. There's always a balance that is required. The hyper-mobile joints are at great risk of injury.
Thanks for your reply, Lisa.
I guess I'm confused, because I have also heard that gymnastics and olympic weightlifters possess extremely high levels of flexibility and strength, especially in relation to body weight. And, aren't flexibility levels generally assessed by performance of different static stretches? Are there different kinds of flexibility at play here?
I am also curious as to how much hyper-mobility would affect an average trainee's performance. Someone like me, for example, who has a goal of squatting 300lbs. Would I benifit from being less flexible, or does the issue only come into play at higher loads?
You have for example dynamic stretching. If you do a search on the forum for it, im sure you will find lots of info
And you should be as flexible as you need to do what you got to do. So you have to be enough flexible to for example deep squat propperly.
If you have a goal of squatting 300lbs. you should definately not be very stiff, but enough flexible to preform a propper squat.
I dont think hyperflexibility is something you get in an instant, i think that takes a serious ammount of stretching.
I'm no expert, but I believe they're addressing EXTREME flexibility, as in circus contortionist.
Functional flexibility is a good thing.
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
looking at people around me.. I think that extreme flexibility is about as rare as extreme muscle built and takes an awful lot of work or a natural disposition that few people have, and that those who do can't really do much about it. I don't think that doing an hour or two of yoga a week will get you there. and if you do do yoga.. and are finding that you are flexible enough, you can always choose NOT to gain more flexiblity at that time. and just continue the poses at the flexibility you're satisfied with. At that time you'll be able to relax even more in the yoga.. and concentrate on the relaxation part of yoga.
I'm no expert, but I believe they're addressing EXTREME flexibility, as in circus contortionist.
Functional flexibility is a good thing.
Right. Very few average people are TOO flexible. I have one female client who is too flexible. She's just, well, wobbly, and it's so hard for her to focus load into her muscle bellies.
evancj, has your yoga practice made you extremely flexible?
One of the biggest criticisms of yoga is that the person who is not so flexible will attempt to get into the poses by increasing lumbar flexibility rather than hip or thoracic flexibility. That would be a bad thing for anybody.
Right. Very few average people are TOO flexible. I have one female client who is too flexible. She's just, well, wobbly, and it's so hard for her to focus load into her muscle bellies.
evancj, has your yoga practice made you extremely flexible?
One of the biggest criticisms of yoga is that the person who is not so flexible will attempt to get into the poses by increasing lumbar flexibility rather than hip or thoracic flexibility. That would be a bad thing for anybody.
I wouldn't consider myself extremely flexible. I can put my palms easily on the floor while standing with my legs straight, and I can put my head in between my knees while in a seated stretch. I don't feel particularly wobbly, and I don't do any of the ridiculous, pretzel-like asanas.
I'm rededicating myself to improving my strength as the new year comes on, and I thought that my yoga practice and an occaisional run or swim would be an excellent fit for recovery days on a typical MWF total body lifting routine.
I guess I'm confused, because I have also heard that gymnastics and olympic weightlifters possess extremely high levels of flexibility and strength, especially in relation to body weight.
Gymnasts and martial artists in particular excel in relative strength, the ratio of power to body mass. These athletes work hard to increase rate of force development rather than absolute strength. They have to be able to create force with mobility.
Quote:
And, aren't flexibility levels generally assessed by performance of different static stretches? Are there different kinds of flexibility at play here?
Yes, flexibility assessments are done with static stretching, but they really have very little value. Athletes are concerned with mobility – a joint’s ROM while moving.
Quote:
I am also curious as to how much hyper-mobility would affect an average trainee's performance. Someone like me, for example, who has a goal of squatting 300lbs. Would I benifit from being less flexible, or does the issue only come into play at higher loads?
Hyper-mobility will put you at increased risk of injury with any load. A lengthened muscle cannot produce as much force, that is why stretching before lifting is not advised for someone with adequate mobility. Most average trainees are too tight, especially in their hips.
I wouldn't consider myself extremely flexible. I can put my palms easily on the floor while standing with my legs straight, and I can put my head in between my knees while in a seated stretch. I don't feel particularly wobbly, and I don't do any of the ridiculous, pretzel-like asanas.
I'm rededicating myself to improving my strength as the new year comes on, and I thought that my yoga practice and an occaisional run or swim would be an excellent fit for recovery days on a typical MWF total body lifting routine.
I like yoga. I never felt better than when I was practicing regularly. I like what Marykaa said about choosing not to increase flexibility if a particular joint's ROM is adequate. Yoga is about the breath, not about how much of a pretzel you are. Remember during your practice to create proper body positions and you sound like you're capable of doing just that. Don't bend or extend the lumbar spine just to get around or lower. Work the extensibility of your thoracic spine and mobility of your hips.
Don't stretch before lifting and do only those mobility drills that you personally need. You might find activation drills more appropriate as your general warm-up for lifting and then move right on to warm-ups for the specific lifts.
If you find that your flexibility seems to limit your strength gains, then reconsider and revamp your program.
You're welcome. I'd love to hear more about your yoga practice and what poses come easy for you and which ones are difficult. My post workout cool down includes a lot of yoga poses along with other static stretches. Down dog, pigeon, triangle pose variations, seated forward bend variations. I rely on those and others. Working your hips toward the archer pose and any pose that requires thoracic extensibility (like seated twist) will assist your lifting.
Poses that increase lumbar extension, like many back bends, can be detrimental to your lifting.
Always tell yourself this:
"The only flexibility I want is the flexibility that I can use."
I tend to use more dynamic flexibility although there is a time and place for both static and dynamic. I would use the dynamic, pre event, and the static post event.
__________________
Wishing You the Very Best
Chaney Weiner, CSCS
Beginning January 14, 2008... The Ultimate Fat Burning, Motivational, and Life Changing Formula Teleseminar Series. www.UltimateFatBurningFormula.com
Always tell yourself this:
"The only flexibility I want is the flexibility that I can use."
I tend to use more dynamic flexibility although there is a time and place for both static and dynamic. I would use the dynamic, pre event, and the static post event.
I have a similar phrase that I tell my clients...
You only want to be as flexible as you need to be.
I'm not on any particular quest to be extraordinarily flexible for the sake of it, but the demands of flexibility when practicing yoga are markedly greater than those for most weight training. That is, I need to be more flexible for yoga than I do for the iron game.
My concern was that the flexibility requirments imposed upon me by yoga may be detrimental to my improvements in weightlifting, given some of the comments I'd run across on the forum. It sounds like the rather limited practice I would be doing on off days won't conflict with my strength goals, especially if I conceive of my yoga as recovery and don't try to push for greater flexibility than I need to simply hold the postures.
To answer your question, Lisa, I practice a form of ashtanga yoga outlined by Beryl Bender Birch in her "Power Yoga" book. There are two routines I usually do on alternate days, each about 40 minutes long. They consist of a series of sun salutations and static poses connected by transition movements and coordinated with a breathing pattern. None of the poses require substantial backbending with the exception of a limited cobra pose in the sun salutations that I rarely stress and have no inclination to improve upon given your comments.
Most of the other poses are standing stretches, often on one leg, that I feel are great for my hips, and some seated stretches that help me work the soreness out of my hamstrings.
So, all that being said, does anyone see a problem with a weekly routine like this for a strength development phase?
You only want to be as flexible as you need to be.
I like this one JP.
As for flexibility and strength and when to do which type of flexibility....well some people will say that if you do static flexibility right before an explosive event you are setting yourself up for injury. Then you have those who say that static stretching reducing ones ability to produce optimal force in the muscle.
I feel that when you utilizing each type of stretching and timing of it are key. I would recommend all versions just do them at the appropriate times.
__________________
Wishing You the Very Best
Chaney Weiner, CSCS
Beginning January 14, 2008... The Ultimate Fat Burning, Motivational, and Life Changing Formula Teleseminar Series. www.UltimateFatBurningFormula.com
Flexibility and Strength
Spechally if you only do static stretching.
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