Deadlifts, good, bad, or ugly?

[spankdat]

Quick question then. Which would seem to be best suited to my body type, conventional or sumo, considering I am 6'1", 205 lbs., 11-12% b.f., with proportionately long legs, short torso, and I suppose long arms as well, since my wingspan is 6'2"? After shoring up a chronic lower back problem with RDLs and other posterior chain and accessory exercises, I feel ready to try incorporating DLs into my routine. Anyone?

[Chris C]

I think deadlifts and its variations should be incorporated into most training programs provided that they can be performed correctly. I don't think one(deadlift or squat) is better than the other, just different tools to get a particular job done. I think the only negative with the deadlift which I don't think anyone has mentioned is its ability to overtrain fairly quickly if training too heavy/frequently. Moreso than the squat I would say. Here is a question...do you approach the deadlift as a "lift" per se or exercise? Sometimes I treat it as a lift and use low reps, speed work or OL to bring it up. Other times, just sets of 5 or more like "typical" exercise. What are your opinions for just someone training for basic strength, health and fitness? I'm assuming the latter...just want keep this rolling.

[Lost Dog]

I've never really done my rack pulls sumo style, except for that one time. To make sure I hadn't lost my mind...

However, now you've got me wondering. A rack pull, sumo style would mimic the sumo deadlift movement better than a conventional rack pull would, wouldn't it? So, if your goal is to use the rack pull to increase your deadlift, wouldn't doing them the same style be best?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Patricia

This is correct.

Nice back on your avatar. Impressive!

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

I've never really done my rack pulls sumo style, except for that one time. To make sure I hadn't lost my mind...

However, now you've got me wondering. A rack pull, sumo style would mimic the sumo deadlift movement better than a conventional rack pull would, wouldn't it? So, if your goal is to use the rack pull to increase your deadlift, wouldn't doing them the same style be best?

Maybe for some..

For me, if i started to do them that way I may have the tendency to lock out my legs earlier and use my back. Plus, your hands kind of get in the way on a rack pull sumo deadlift IMO. Ive always thought of rack pulls being used to stregnthen upperback more due to holding onto a heavier weight. I think there would be a lot better things you could do to bring up your sumo deadlift.

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by Chris C

I think deadlifts and its variations should be incorporated into most training programs provided that they can be performed correctly. I don't think one(deadlift or squat) is better than the other, just different tools to get a particular job done. I think the only negative with the deadlift which I don't think anyone has mentioned is its ability to overtrain fairly quickly if training too heavy/frequently. Moreso than the squat I would say. Here is a question...do you approach the deadlift as a "lift" per se or exercise? Sometimes I treat it as a lift and use low reps, speed work or OL to bring it up. Other times, just sets of 5 or more like "typical" exercise. What are your opinions for just someone training for basic strength, health and fitness? I'm assuming the latter...just want keep this rolling.

You want to train it heavy sometimes and for reps other times. Your going to use both in everyday stuff. For most people on here im doubting training the deadlift more is going to overreach them. If you deadlift 600 or something bigger like that, yes you can overtrain on it, but for most of us I dont think its going to be to much of an issue as long as we dont go to failure week after week.

Ill tell you one thing though, id perfer to train the deadlift heavy any day. Reps with the deadlift is very demanding in every possible way.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Maybe for some..

For me, if i started to do them that way I may have the tendency to lock out my legs earlier and use my back. Plus, your hands kind of get in the way on a rack pull sumo deadlift IMO. Ive always thought of rack pulls being used to stregnthen upperback more due to holding onto a heavier weight. I think there would be a lot better things you could do to bring up your sumo deadlift.

Definitely. In fact, I always figured I might as well let my rack pulls make up for whatever I might be missing by sumo deadlifting. At least some of it.

However, my hands get in the way with my sumo deadlifts, too. I often end up with scrapes on my upper legs from my fingernails. That's pleasant, huh?

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

You want to train it heavy sometimes and for reps other times. Your going to use both in everyday stuff. For most people on here im doubting training the deadlift more is going to overreach them. If you deadlift 600 or something bigger like that, yes you can overtrain on it, but for most of us I dont think its going to be to much of an issue as long as we dont go to failure week after week.

Ill tell you one thing though, id perfer to train the deadlift heavy any day. Reps with the deadlift is very demanding in every possible way.

Reps with deadlift is very demanding indeed! When I mean reps, I used to do high reps. I remember doing 20+ reps with 225-240 several years ago. Buddy and I did some high rep deadlifts with the Hammer Strength Shrug machine. I think I did like 400 for over 20. I think I was actually ill after that. I laid on the floor for like 20 min and could hardly drive home. I even felt worse when I got home lol. Never again lol.

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by Chris C

Reps with deadlift is very demanding indeed! When I mean reps, I used to do high reps. I remember doing 20+ reps with 225-240 several years ago. Buddy and I did some high rep deadlifts with the Hammer Strength Shrug machine. I think I did like 400 for over 20. I think I was actually ill after that. I laid on the floor for like 20 min and could hardly drive home. I even felt worse when I got home lol. Never again lol.

I know how you feel, a couple weeks ago I did 405 x 15 conventional deads and after that I had to take about a 15 minute break just sitting on a bench haha. Good to do once in a while I figure.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

You want to train it heavy sometimes and for reps other times. Your going to use both in everyday stuff. For most people on here im doubting training the deadlift more is going to overreach them. If you deadlift 600 or something bigger like that, yes you can overtrain on it, but for most of us I dont think its going to be to much of an issue as long as we dont go to failure week after week.

Ill tell you one thing though, id perfer to train the deadlift heavy any day. Reps with the deadlift is very demanding in every possible way.

for the average person, if you pull every week you're going to get "overreached."

[ParanoidAndroid]

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

for the average person, if you pull every week you're going to get "overreached."

So you think pulling 1x heavy per week is bad? I thought plenty of programs have you doing deads at least once per week. NROL Strength, and if I'm not mistaken doesn't westside have a ME day once per week for deadlifting?

[karky]

I dont think its bad. As Alc said "overreached" its not overtraining. Aslong as you have a deload every now and then its fine i think.

[umass]

Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

So you think pulling 1x heavy per week is bad? I thought plenty of programs have you doing deads at least once per week. NROL Strength, and if I'm not mistaken doesn't westside have a ME day once per week for deadlifting?

Pulling heavy every week is very taxing and overall fatigue should be managed around that. For example if I where doing a deadlift specialization routine I probably wouldn't back squat heavy(1-6 reps) at all during that cycle or at least during weeks where I was deadlifting over say 80%.
The thing about New rules is I don't think that you are hitting an actual 1Rm and there are planned rest weeks.
Westside has a ME Squat/DL day once a week but they rotate deadlift variations, squat variations and goodmorning variations and they usaully hit a deadlift 1RM every 8 weeks or so.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by spankdat

Quick question then. Which would seem to be best suited to my body type, conventional or sumo, considering I am 6'1", 205 lbs., 11-12% b.f., with proportionately long legs, short torso, and I suppose long arms as well, since my wingspan is 6'2"? After shoring up a chronic lower back problem with RDLs and other posterior chain and accessory exercises, I feel ready to try incorporating DLs into my routine. Anyone?

In his Deadlift Diagnosis article, Eric Cressey wrote:

If you're unsure of which style to use, try both and see which feels more comfortable. Generally speaking, if you squat wider and have shorter arms and legs, you'll take nicely to sumo pulling. Conversely, if you squat narrow and have long limbs and a short torso, conventional is probably the way to go.

If your back is still an issue for you though, do try out sumos because they take a lot of load off the back.

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

So you think pulling 1x heavy per week is bad? I thought plenty of programs have you doing deads at least once per week. NROL Strength, and if I'm not mistaken doesn't westside have a ME day once per week for deadlifting?

yeah, pulling heavy every, even once a week will catch up to you. It's one of the most taxing lifts on your CNS. That's why a lot of times the next day you feel like you're hit by a bus.

The classic westside template doesn't ever use straight squats or straight deadlifts from the floor on their ME day. You build up your lifts through assistance stuff, and test your lifts on ME days. Your ME movements should be indicators to tell how your lifts are progressing. Like if you know you bring up your rack pull your deadlift goes up x pounds, then if you do a rack pull you know your deadlift is probably going to go up.

A lot of people who use the westside stuff rarely pull. They focus on bringing up their squat to bring up their deadlift, and pull every 3+ weeks.

I've never read NROL so i can't comment on what it has.

Doing stuff with speed pulls with lighter weight is different than pulling heavy

[ParanoidAndroid]

Alright, I understand. Thanks for the explanation. I'm still learning and I'm pretty weak, but I know what you're saying about CNS. Whenever I get a PR I feel like shit the next day.

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

yeah, pulling heavy every, even once a week will catch up to you. It's one of the most taxing lifts on your CNS. That's why a lot of times the next day you feel like you're hit by a bus.

The classic westside template doesn't ever use straight squats or straight deadlifts from the floor on their ME day. You build up your lifts through assistance stuff, and test your lifts on ME days. Your ME movements should be indicators to tell how your lifts are progressing. Like if you know you bring up your rack pull your deadlift goes up x pounds, then if you do a rack pull you know your deadlift is probably going to go up.

A lot of people who use the westside stuff rarely pull. They focus on bringing up their squat to bring up their deadlift, and pull every 3+ weeks.

I've never read NROL so i can't comment on what it has.

Doing stuff with speed pulls with lighter weight is different than pulling heavy

[canuckguy]

Originally Posted by TheSteve

Thinking about this question a bit more. If I could only do one exercise for the rest of my life it would be deads. I cannot see one goal someone could have that a deadlift wouldnt help them. Fat loss, strength, power, trap training, anything involved with the posterior chain, speen, verticle jump, wrestling, increase in bone density, staying fit, lower back stability/strength, ab training, and I really dont see this list stopping anytime soon. So I guess my answer is unless you medically cant. You should ABSOLUTELY be doing some variation of the pull for whatever purpose.

But will it give my abz like Brad Pitt and huuuuge bicepts. (misspelling intentional)


All kidding aside, I picked B.

Even the programs put together by the pros (i.e. NROL; HGM etc.) cycle DL's and their variations in and out from one phase to another.