falling backward on squats?

[tasinquefield]

Is there any way to prevent myself from falling backward (or feeling like it) when doing squats?

I was doing them as part of a barbell complex yesterday (thanks Lisa~!) and I kept falling back a little bit. Is it more a matter of getting my hips stronger, or keeping the weight on my heels, both, or something else?

I don't really have the problem when doing a bodyweight squat, only when I have a bar on my back.

Thanks!

- Travis

[bullandbear]

I experienced the same phenomenon! The trainer in my gym suggested envisioning planting the entire foot firmly on the ground instead of focusing on the heel or placing something below the heel. Is this the right approach?

Also, can some fitness experts here comment if this might be an ankle mobility issue too? Thanks!

[igunick]

you could wear olympic weightlifting shoes, but I doubt that's the right way to solve this.

[Lost Dog]

Seems strange to me. Most people have the opposite issue (bodyweight squats are harder without a weight to keep you down). Many people have trouble keeping upright with weight on the back and tend to lean far forward.

[John Izzo]

Hamstrings...and posterior chain development. Also, overall core strength.

[tasinquefield]

I think one of my issues is that focus too much about making the movement back with my hips when I have the bar - I can squat pretty naturally without thinking w/o the bar, but once I get a bar on my back I feel I need to concentrate more on making a good effort back and then down with my hips.

[Simon.]

I can relate. If you have bad hip mobility, or tight hamstrings/glutes, and you're trying to keep the form strict, which would mean keeping the feet flat on the ground and the back straight, the only way to go past the point where you'd have to either get on your toes or flex your spine is falling backwards.

Try stretching your glutes/hamstrings beforehand, and doing some of those drills where you duck under a bar left to right, it helped a little for me.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by bullandbear

I experienced the same phenomenon! The trainer in my gym suggested envisioning planting the entire foot firmly on the ground instead of focusing on the heel or placing something below the heel. Is this the right approach?

Also, can some fitness experts here comment if this might be an ankle mobility issue too? Thanks!

Not being able to get low in the squat is often an ankle mobility problem. Bill Hartman did a short video on ankle mobility not long ago that shows you how to test your ankle mobility. I saved it, but don't know how to link it here. Does anyone have a link to that video?

But if a person can get low in a bodyweight squat with good form, then their ankle mobility would appear to be sufficient.

Originally Posted by tasinquefield

I think one of my issues is that focus too much about making the movement back with my hips when I have the bar - I can squat pretty naturally without thinking w/o the bar, but once I get a bar on my back I feel I need to concentrate more on making a good effort back and then down with my hips.

Based on this comment, I'd guess it's either core stability and posterior chain strength (like John said), or just proprioception and not being able to control your center of gravity. If it's the latter, then just practice. Start bodyweight and add weight a little at a time to find out where it gets hard. Get someone to watch you if you can.

Sometimes in a complex you just get tired and it gets hard to maintain form because of general fatigue. (That doesn't make it ok to get sloppy though!) Do you have the problem with all loaded squats, even low rep sets?

[Lisa~]

Ah. The ankle mobility video is right there on Kevin's main web page!

http://www.thefitcast.com/

[tasinquefield]

Lisa,

I didn't notice it until I watched the Dan John squat video and adjusted my form. I know I have some weakness in my hips and core, which I am working on (I do a lot of the stuff from the Core Performance book on my off days from doing TT).

I don't really have anyone who can watch my form, but I will be a little more careful in my form, and probably not go down quite as deep yet. I try to squat as deep as I can, but I tend to get a little more off-balance the lower I go, probably because of the tightness in my hips.

Tonight I will do some squats with the bar and light weights to see how it feels and work on my form.

Thanks!

[Alcoholiday]

Originally Posted by John Izzo

Hamstrings...and posterior chain development. Also, overall core strength.

yes.

i would not switch shoes. don't look for a quick fix, and focus on increasing your PC strength.

[tasinquefield]

I knew I had a few different points of weakness, including my core and PC. Little did I know that my whole body seems to be one big weakness.

[Alcoholiday]

how do you squat now? is it a PLing way or oly/atg? How much hamstring/core work do you do now?

I used to have the same problem you do, with falling foward, or feeling like i was falling backwards. But after i started doing a whole crapload of hamstring work and heavy core work, and, increasing your squat, it goes away

[tasinquefield]

Alcoholiday,

I recently switched the way I squat. I used to stand with my feet more narrow and starting the motion with my knees. After watching the Dan John video, I widened my stance so I am little wider than shoulder width and starting my motion with my hips going backward. Essentially, replicating the movement of the goblet squat he shows in the video. Squatting this way has eliminated the pain I had in my knees when squatting, however I realized how tight my hips are.

Currently I am doing Turbulence Training, and on my off days I do some re/prehab work for my shoulders and knees. Essentially, I am going some of the work from Core Performance, the prehab work, physioball, and regeneration. I stretch every day and do movement prep every day. I do a lot of hip bridging exercises, and focus on stretching out my hips.

The current TT routine I am doing just has the stability ball curl as a primary hamstring exercise. However, I do both ab/adductions and also a rear leg raise on my knee rehab days, since my ortho noticed I had issues and weakness with my hips.

Anything else I should be doing outside of TT to strength my hips, hammies and posterior chain? I don't want to overdo my training, but I'd also like to get these issues corrected.

Thanks.

- Travis

[Cynic]

I had this problem too. Some good posterior chain work helped improve my posture on it.

[Alcoholiday]

well, stability ball curls won't give you a good carryover in the PC strength you need for squats.

All of my hamstring/PC assistance work came from:
Glute Ham Raises
RDLs
Good Mornings

i would do around 5 or 6 sets of heavy hamstring work after my max effort movement. You probably don't have access to a GHR machine, but RDLs are a good substitute, considering a lot of people don't feel comfortable doing heavy GMs.

I also throw in a few sets a week of unilateral lower body work. I like DB lunges and bulgarian squats.

I'm not too familiar with turblance training, but this is what i do.

A lot of people spend too much time doing exercises that won't contribute to making them strong or giving them a bigger squat. RDL, GMs, and GHR are all very squat specific assistance exercises. Pullthroughs and other stuff like that are good as well... but i like to go heavier on the movements i listed.

[tasinquefield]

Thanks for the tips.

I have no problems doing GM's...I actually need to do them, since they also work the lower back, which I have some weakness in.

I do lunges as part of the movement prep stuff, but I don't go real heavy as right now my knees still have a little trouble handling heavy weights.

[Alcoholiday]

i go pretty light on lunges around 8 reps, and then for GMs, i keep it around 5-8 reps.

[tasinquefield]

Ok, well I