DOS: "3 x 10 IS NOT the same as 10 x 3" - Page 3 - JP Fitness Forums

dos · 12-07-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Dos, I tend to do option #1, but often do #2 if I'm feeling like I want to push it more. It means reps vary within a range. In your example, intensity stays high, but the reps get more locked in. I suppose which option to use depends on training goals?

Yeah Chris, when I prescribe say 4 x 5 or 4 x 10 or 5-4-3-2 etc. I expect my athletes to attempt to get that many reps by whatever means possible.

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Wow, that's a whole different perspective.

How would your athletes warm up for this kind of work? And what restp periods would you have them use?

OG, I tell them to warm-up however they want but to get ready to hit a HARD set right away. SOme will do 1 set to warm-up others may do several sets depending on what their starting weight is. Our rest periods for hypertrophy phases is around 1 minute.

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But this certainly doesn't mean that someone who is constantly sleep-deprived and lifting less will grow more if they challenge themselves than someone who sleeps 8 hours a day.

Otherwise, I'd just put squats at the end of my workouts every time so I wouldn't have to lift as much!

Anyway, this is a great thread. Keep it going, guys!

RH, of course not but if you think about it, there would be nothing easy about doing squats last even if the loads were decreased. I would always opt for the squats first regardless of the heavier loads

OldGuy · 12-07-2005, 01:50 PM

Thank you, dos. This thread has been a real eye opener. I've learned a lot here.

Iceztiq · 12-08-2005, 11:53 AM

Yeah, thanks Dos! U really give the most basic principle of hypertrophy law, despite all those sciences i've learned from too many strength coaches . Not that i don't like learning them, though.

So, basically u don't have a load rule, except to put intensity high on each set, even though it means decreasing the load on the next sets. Kind of like instinctive training.. i'm gonna start applying your method on my workout tomorrow.

dos · 12-08-2005, 12:07 PM

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Kind of like instinctive training.. i'm gonna start applying your method on my workout tomorrow.

Hmmmm.....Instinctive Training....sounds like a possible book title. Better call my agent ASAP!!

Bill Hartman · 12-08-2005, 12:52 PM

Dos is autoregulating!!!

FYI...

245 x 10
240 x 10
235 x 10
230 x 10

This method develops anaerobic capacity. This would be needed to produce NEAR maximal capacity repetitively...say like in football. Also used to raise work capacity at a specific level of effort. In this case 10RM.

245 x 10
245 x 9
245 x 8

Develops anaerobic power or basically training to raise your ability to produce maximal effort at a specific level of intensity.

Both are useful. Just depends on the athletes' needs.

If you need to adapt to higher training volumes use the first method.

Bill

Chris Correia · 12-08-2005, 01:23 PM

Sure, Bill, chime in at the last minute and try to claim credit. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Actually, given the relatively small difference in weight and reps -- 15 pounds, or about 6%, difference in weight across the sets, and two reps -- is there really much difference in benefits/outcome between the two approaches in the example?

Bill Hartman · 12-08-2005, 01:35 PM

Yep.

Bill

Marinewithego · 12-08-2005, 01:42 PM

Wow.

I'm sure glad I decided to check out this thread.

Chris Correia · 12-08-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Hartman:
Yep.

Bill

Ummmm . . .could you elucidate? Or is there really nothing more to say except, "That's the way it is." In which case I'll trust you.

Now I'm thinking about what would be the preferred approach for me.

Bill Hartman · 12-08-2005, 01:56 PM

Sorry, working hard today.

Do you need higher strength levels or the ability to maintain force output over a longer period of time.

Bill

Chris Correia · 12-08-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Hartman:
Sorry, working hard today.

Do you need higher strength levels or the ability to maintain force output over a longer period of time.

Bill

(Edited, in case anyone who has read it wonders.

Since I'm a weakling, I need strength. However, in the overall scheme of things, I more need the ability to maintain force over time.

So . . . I should train like Dos trains his players.

Would the same differentiation of benefit/purpose apply to, say, a 5 rep scheme (sets of 5-5-5-5 versus 5-4-3-3)?

Marinewithego · 12-08-2005, 02:17 PM

I would love to get Waterbury to chime in on this conversation. Maybe I will give him a call and ask him to check it out.

Newlife · 12-08-2005, 02:30 PM

UFC 57.....DOS vs Waterbury

Coming to Payperview soon!

Great post. I feel HUGE just reading this.

Bill Hartman · 12-08-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Correia:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Hartman:
Sorry, working hard today.

Do you need higher strength levels or the ability to maintain force output over a longer period of time.

Bill

(Edited, in case anyone who has read it wonders.

Since I'm a weakling, I need strength. However, in the overall scheme of things, I more need the ability to maintain force over time.

So . . . I should train like Dos trains his players.

Would the same differentiation of benefit/purpose apply to, say, a 5 rep scheme (sets of 5-5-5-5 versus 5-4-3-3)? [/quote]You need strength based on what? From a performance standpoint, if say your peak striking force is sufficient (plenty of knock out power),then you need to increase your ability to do so repeatedly (anaerobic capacity).

If you find that your strength levels have topped out or improvements are very slow, increase capacity at current levels to allow greater work to be performed and stabilize strength levels. Then switch back to the same intensity with a progressive decrease in reps (anaerobic power).

You rep range will determine training effect that you desired from maximal strength to hypertrophy to strength-endurance.

Bill

Chris Correia · 12-08-2005, 03:14 PM

Thanks, Bill.

BTW, I just got your Golf Conditioning DVD's today. Can't wait to check them out.

kuri · 12-08-2005, 04:23 PM

Chris, I'm curious as to what sort of weight workouts you are doing these days?

There are a ton of MA people that sing Crossfit's praises. I haven't sparred since beginning Crossfit so can't give an accurate answer as to how it might benefit me, but wondering if you've checked out some of their tools?

Chris Correia · 12-08-2005, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kuri:
Chris, I'm curious as to what sort of weight workouts you are doing these days?

There are a ton of MA people that sing Crossfit's praises. I haven't sparred since beginning Crossfit so can't give an accurate answer as to how it might benefit me, but wondering if you've checked out some of their tools?

I've been following (not doing) Crossfit a bit more recently, and just ordered a set of rings. It seems like it would be good training for the martial arts. However, I just set up a 20 week plan using Alwyn's stuff: first a month of complexes, the a month of combo lifts, and then 12 weeks of his martial arts training program from his ebook. Alwyn's stuff is just so solid in any case, and is very good martial arts training. He's had a few articles at tmag recently, and has a "locker room" there that I enjoy reading; he posts some good info there in response to questions.

I've had a shoulder problem (nearly all better) and am coming off pneumonia, so I've been pretty inactive compared to usual (well, quite inactive since the pneumonia). So, I'll be working back into stuff, build up my conditioning, drop a few pounds first, and then focus on adding a little muscle.