The Internet and the Fitness Business

[Deserve]

I thought the prior thread, was just turning into a good thread before it was closed out. Myself, Alan, and Kaiser had covered a wide variety of interesting business topics relating to fitness. We covered everything from probabilistic modeling to the fundamentals of business planning (goals, actions and assumptions). We were about to dive into the merits of 360 feedback.

The inflammatory, out of left field "pissing contest" comment aside, I thought it was a very adult conversation that was diving into to some of the interesting points about the business of fitness.

Keeping it an adult conversation, I would like to discuss what are some of the more interesting models that exist for doing business on the Internet? Particularly as it pertains to fitness. (utilizing forums, e-books, etc.)

For me I like the concept of viral marketing which seems to pertain well to creating buzz on the Internet and seems to be the main stay of many of the fitness professionals that many of us follow here.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Deserve

I thought the prior thread, was just turning into a good thread before it was closed out. Myself, Alan, and Kaiser had covered a wide variety of interesting business topics relating to fitness. We covered everything from probabilistic modeling to the fundamentals of business planning (goals, actions and assumptions). We were about to dive into the merits of 360 feedback.

The inflammatory, out of left field "pissing contest" comment aside, I thought it was a very adult conversation that was diving into to some of the interesting points about the business of fitness.

Keeping it an adult conversation, I would like to discuss what are some of the more interesting models that exist for doing business on the Internet? Particularly as it pertains to fitness. (utilizing forums, e-books, etc.)

For me I like the concept of viral marketing which seems to pertain well to creating buzz on the Internet and seems to be the main stay of many of the fitness professionals that many of us follow here.

I wholeheartedly agree with Gabe on all counts. I read all of the posts since my last visit and just when I thought things were getting good, JP closed it.

Heated debate (and it wasn't all that heated, really) is just part of good, fruitful, stimulating, idea-generating discussion. I'm sure glad that scientists designing things such as safety equipment and aircraft get into heated debates about things; it makes the final outcome even better and stimulates more discussion and exploration.

We can have strong discussion and still be civil enough, which I think we were in that topic. Let's not be afraid to take off the kidd gloves and get our hand dirty! Personally, the criticism I don't like to hear usually ends up being that worth most considering and which often pushes me to better performance and new ideas. People always agreeing with me and patting me on the back just lets me stay in the same rut.

And remember, a fitness expert (however that designation is arrived at) -- or whatever kind of expert -- does not make one an expert in all areas.

[Kevin Larrabee]

I asked JP to close it.

The discussion may have been good, but had nothing to do what the thread was about.

[Chris Correia]

Well, now we have a new thread, the topic of which is, "The Internet and the Fitness Business." I'm waiting for Gabe to provide us with some new inspiration/instigation.

[Kaiser]

Here is the previous thread Gabe mentioned above.

I'm in to discuss this. Mostly because my new product is being promoted mostly through viral marketing at shows and events, and we are looking to add the internet component as well but it is something I am woefully unfamiliar with (although I have been reading a lot about it lately) and looking to soak up as much information and knowledge as I can.

So beginning with viral marketing as the main promotional component...

For those unfamiliar with viral marketing, here is Wikipedia's entry on it. A local Yellow Pages had an interesting viral marketing concept I saw recently. They would park a brand new car at various malls - it would be a beautiful sports car, but it would be covered in what appeared to be bird droppings. LOTS of them. As people would approach, carefully looking up to see that they don't get nailed, they would see something in the front winshield that said 'Need a car wash? Look up one in the local Yellow Pages!' or something to that effect. Apparently car wash visits in this city increased noticeably after this campaign and people would 'talk it up' with others they knew. (The bird droppings were not real, btw.)

Another notable example of viral marketing was the launch of Red Bull in the US. Hiring out vans with attractive ladies and guys to go to clubs to push the product, the category of energy drink was launched without an ad or billboard. Actually, the last thing that Red Bull NA does in a particular market is advertise in mass media - that is once they have already saturated the club scene and viral marketing will work no more. Of course, they have been insanely succesful with this model, but the amazing thing is that it limits expenditure of upfront cash precisely when you don't have it to waste - at the beginning of a launch before revenues come in.

An example of viral marketing on the internet that many might be familiar with would be the BK subservient chicken.

Like Gabe, I'd also like to hear how internet fitness businesses have used viral marketing effectively.

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by Kevin Larrabee

I asked JP to close it.

The discussion may have been good, but had nothing to do what the thread was about.

Too bad, Kevin. That discussion was more important than what questions to ask.

[Lost Dog]

I don't think threads should be closed because they go off track. But, that's not really in the title of this thread, is it?

I did think that the subject (of this thread) meritted it's own thread, so Kevin's thread could have continued along the initial course.

I also disagree on the pissing contest part, as I know most of the people involved and could tell that they all wanted to help Kev and were just doing some good natured banter, back and forth.

Oh well... I take full responsibility for any discomfort that I've caused with my internet thoughtlessness.

Back to you guys and all the numbers and theories and stuff.

[Kaiser]

OK, so let me ask this? Besides the BK chicken campaign I have mentioned above, what other campaigns are notable to you? I think the Borat clips on YouTube were placed there by people related to the film (if I recall) and I know I heard (and saw) about this movie well before I ever saw or heard a paid advertisement. Others that come to mind? We could make a list, cull it, and try to see why, exactly, those viral marketing campaigns ended up being successful.

[Chris Correia]

I know there is more to viral and buzz marketing than meets the eye, but . . .

Didn't the expression 'word of mouth' exist for at least decades? So, mouth nowadays includes more media, including blogs and websites.

Perhaps the bottom line of marketing is having a product or service that is wanted/needed and offering it in a high quality manner at a reasonable price. Thus occurs word of mouth, probably the best marketing there is.

IMO, the magic of good word of mouth is lost when someone/a company plants references too intentionally. It turns the marketing from being naturally viral to being more akin to Al Qaida launching a biological agent attack. I personally tend to run away and hide from such attacks.

Quality and value do it for me.

[Lou Schuler]

Sorry to sidetrack us from viral marketing, but of all the topics touched upon in the previous thread, the one that most intrigued me was the very brief "quality vs. quantity" discussion.

This is something I've thought a lot about in my 5+ years as a book author.

As readers of fitness books and consumers of fitness products, how do you guys assess this question? Does it bother you when there's more product than you can absorb? Do you ever pick up a product and say to yourself, "This guy's just phoning it in"? Or, "He should've thought this one through a little more before he started selling it"?

Conversely, how big a premium do you put on quality -- quality of information, quality of design, quality of writing and editing?

It's interesting to me that the internet opens up all kinds of possibilities for pricing that you don't have in traditional publishing, or in other entertainment media. A shitty hardcover book is going to cost the same $25 as a good one, and the consumers choose which to buy with no price differentiation.

What I mean is, if you were buying a bottle of wine, you'd assume the price had something to do with the quality. But with a book or a movie, it's the same price no matter what. And the cost of developing the product doesn't enter into the equation -- whether it's a Steven Spielberg movie that cost $200 million to make or a Kevin Smith movie financed with credit cards, you pay the same to get into the theater or rent the DVD.

But when it comes to Internet fitness products, there's almost no ceiling on what producers will charge consumers.

So I'm curious about how you guys look at these questions.

[Kaiser]

From my point of view, Lou, there is a point of marginal returns hitting zero beyond which additional message exposures do not help keep top of mind awareness, but rather start to degrade it. That point is individual to the person that is being targeted, but when you are building up a new brand, it is very hard to hit that point early on. In other words, any exposure is a good one - and that is an advertising maxim that holds true until you become a household name (like McDonalds, for example, who doesn't want any unapproved exposure of their name or products).

If I could use an example (and I hope he won't mind): Craig is very good at sending out daily (sometimes twice daily) e-mails. They are short and sweet, often repetitive, but something that I personally like to see, read, and be reminded of. I'll scan a lot of them, read some of them, and even keep some of them. He has come up with a varied way to use e-mail to satisfy his clients. I don't receive any other daily e-mail updates from a service like his, so he must be doing something right because I have not yet hit that 'saturation point' with his product/service.

I guess my point is that quality is in the eye of the customer, and need not be degraded by increased quantity if done right.

I do have to add a caveat that I am not a typical fitness site consumer. I don't peruse many sites or services, and the ones I do come filtered through this forum and usually come recommended. So I may not be your typical internet fitnesss forum consumer - but in many ways I may be precisely because I am not someone who hangs around t-mag or rugged waiting for the latest program or article.

[Michael Roussell]

Sorry if my words were too harsh. The "pissing contest" comment was probably too much. I read the beginning of the thread where Kevin was getting a hard time about his time...I was away from my computer for a while, mulled over what was said - you know how things get worse in your head. By the time I got back to post my piece the thread had changed w/o me really reading the entirety of it. Sorry about that.

-MR

[BFG]

Interesting points Lou. I suppose it comes down to fit for purpose.

If I am planning on purchasing a training manual I want it to deliver the goods and be well thought out, particularly when it comes to diet. It needs to be flexible, so any book that says eat this meal for breakfast eat this for dinner, I'd simply put it back on the shelf. If it gave me options of chose from Carb source a, protein source b and fat source c to construct your meals...or have a look at our handy hints at teh back. Then it would more than likely get me spending my hard earned pennies on it.

I think writing a book like this must be quite a complex task as you dont want to discriminate your audience but then you have to be defined in its purpose. ie is this for a beginner or intermediate or what? As a beginner I dont want to get deluged with information yet I would want a basic understanding, as an intermediate a more in depth discussion as to the whys and wherefores and methology.

Presentation and editing hmmm something that is clear and concise I can clearly read routines or pictures, pointing me to great examples of exercises etc

[RobLL]

Originally Posted by Lou Schuler

Sorry to sidetrack us from viral marketing, but of all the topics touched upon in the previous thread, the one that most intrigued me was the very brief "quality vs. quantity" discussion.

This is something I've thought a lot about in my 5+ years as a book author.

As readers of fitness books and consumers of fitness products, how do you guys assess this question? Does it bother you when there's more product than you can absorb? Do you ever pick up a product and say to yourself, "This guy's just phoning it in"? Or, "He should've thought this one through a little more before he started selling it"?

Conversely, how big a premium do you put on quality -- quality of information, quality of design, quality of writing and editing?

It's interesting to me that the internet opens up all kinds of possibilities for pricing that you don't have in traditional publishing, or in other entertainment media. A shitty hardcover book is going to cost the same $25 as a good one, and the consumers choose which to buy with no price differentiation.

What I mean is, if you were buying a bottle of wine, you'd assume the price had something to do with the quality. But with a book or a movie, it's the same price no matter what. And the cost of developing the product doesn't enter into the equation -- whether it's a Steven Spielberg movie that cost $200 million to make or a Kevin Smith movie financed with credit cards, you pay the same to get into the theater or rent the DVD.

But when it comes to Internet fitness products, there's almost no ceiling on what producers will charge consumers.

So I'm curious about how you guys look at these questions.

When I buy a book I usually do not want to duplicate what I already have read, have, or know. Having read NROL, for example and really liking it, and then bought a couple other books, yours and someone elses, I found them OK, but not adding a lot to my 'data base'. Right now I am considering Mag. Mob. and Inside Out. After those two what would a further DVD offer me. HINT HINT, I would love a well indexed DVD showing all weight lifts, possibly even showing some things not to do.

Unfortunately most of the weight books I would buy are not offered at our Timberland Regional Library, I usually check out (double meaning) a book from them before I buy. As I did NROL, and got about 30 pages into it, and saw it was a 'must buy'. Most books I check out are not. My book and wine budget are limited, I depend upon reviews to allocate my scarce resources. I realize that my interests and author's interests are close but not aligned even on JP forum.

[Alan Aragon]

Originally Posted by Deserve

I thought the prior thread, was just turning into a good thread before it was closed out. Myself, Alan, and Kaiser had covered a wide variety of interesting business topics relating to fitness. We covered everything from probabilistic modeling to the fundamentals of business planning (goals, actions and assumptions). We were about to dive into the merits of 360 feedback.

Great idea about making a new thread, some interesting ground was being reached.

Let it be clear that I'm not a marketing expert at all. My main focus is creating as good a book as possible, and then a distant second is seeking help from the marketing gurus for its exposure, since I often can't find the 25th hour in the day to become adept at it on my own. So I'm gonna sit in on this as a student asking the questions.

I have so far spent all my time working on the book, and very little time dwelling upon the marketing of it. I have a couple of guys lined up to help me out with search engine optimization, and I also have ongoing lectures that give exposure to my site. But that's about it. Most of my working hours are spent either in private practice counseling nutritional clients, or preparing continuing education lectures for trainers & dietitians. Since I am one of the very scant minority of nutritionists supporting a family doing only that, I feel quite comfortable answering Q's related to private practice & continuing ed. I am very busy with in-person clients, so much so that I've been turning away online clients for the past half year.

But as far as internet marketing of my book - I am indeed a noob job. I'm interested in what anyone who has been successful in that vein has to say, as well as what resources I might be pointed towards.

Thanks in advance.

[RedLefty]

Originally Posted by Kaiser

OK, so let me ask this? Besides the BK chicken campaign I have mentioned above, what other campaigns are notable to you?

The internet campaign for "Blair Witch Project" was the example that jumped to my mind. We actually used it as a real-time case study during my MBA.