The Internet and the Fitness Business

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by jrmorgan

In response to Lou: I think the quality and editing, etc. is very important. Recently I purchased a product that included a binder, two cd's, and the printed info. It cost about $160. When I received it in the mail, I was really mad at myself. The quality was horrible. It looked like the person just photocopied the material at the post office and then wrapped and sent it. The order of the material didn't make much sense either. The cd's were poorly recorded and even though it had one of my favorite people on it, the quality was so bad I have vowed not to buy anything from the source again.

Now if the quality had been higher, I don't think I would have had such a strong reaction. So there is a balance to be had somewhere.

No 30 day, money-back, no questions asked guarantee?

[Deserve]

I can think of very few disciplines that couldn't be aided by at least some degree of business acumen. The higher you go in management in any field the more you are expected to understand the business aspects of your chosen profession. You won't go wrong with a business minor at least a few classes.

There is a summary of this thread here.

The Internet and the Fitness Business Summary

It lines everything we discussed in a much more easy to follow outline.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Great writeup, Deserve.

I'll definitely be checking out some of those books from the library.

[tkinsley]

Originally Posted by Lou Schuler

That's only part of it. Another part is talking honestly about endurance exercise, and directly addressing women when doing so. (I had to do all new research on the topic, since I'd used studies on men when I'd written about it previously.)

But the diet component is what's really different about Lift Like a Man vs. NROL. NROL didn't have meal plans, and LLAM will be more like TAP, in that there'll be three week-long plans for different calorie levels. We'll probably use more than one metabolic estimation equation, since the research shows that there's no single estimation that works for all women.

So, even though it was inspired by the response from women to NROL, it's a very different book.

Haha, Lou, feel free to enlist me as a test subject for your girly NROL if you'd like some real-life, testimonial cases to post on the ad copy

Tina

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Deserve

I can think of very few disciplines that couldn't be aided by at least some degree of business acumen.

You know, I'm beginning to believe that more and more. I had taken a Intro to Mass Media class a couple years ago and was both amazed and dismayed by the disparity in the choice of business vs. content.

[laurawd]

This thread is timely for me. In the past year, under the influence of the internet (and fitness forums), I've purchased two "online" coaching programs, in addition to a number of related books. Despite ALL the hype, I was truly disappointed by the quality and quantity of the more expensive program - PN's one-on-one coaching. It set me back over 1200 USD for 6 months, and though they provided "individualized" programs each month (I do not believe these were quite as individualized as they claim), I don't feel the programs -- in addition to some back-and-forth email exchanges with the coach -- were worth the money. I wish I had just trusted myself and done the work to design a program myself. I could have achieved the same. Also, I found that the company really over hypes itself. Perhaps I've just become a skeptic.

The other program offered the same - once-a-month workout/nutrition plans, for less than half the price. Just less hype. In terms of customer service, PN was better, but in the end, I really think they hype themselves up so that they can charge you more for pretty much what you can get out of a book.

I'm considering another program - only because I intend to write an article reviewing online coaching programs.

[tkinsley]

Originally Posted by laurawd

I'm considering another program - only because I intend to write an article reviewing online coaching programs.

Laura--

Do it before Jan 1 and deduct the cost of all of these programs as an uncompensated business expense on your 2006 income taxes

[gregl515]

Originally Posted by Lou Schuler

That's a great question. I can't give a complete answer, since I'm no longer at Rodale and don't have access to their sales data.

Here's what I do know:

The big, surprise hit at Rodale, pre-TAP, was Hard Body Plan. I consulted on that book, and my frustration with the process (lots of good, talented writers worked on it, but none had any kind of affinity for the topic -- these were non-lifters doing a book for lifters) led me to TAP.

But Hard Body Plan had a great title, a great cover illlustration, and a nutrition plan by Tom Incledon (my one accomplishment as consultant!). And it sold outrageously well.

TAP was the first fitness/diet book from Rodale with an actual point of view, which was unconventional (more protein and fat with fewer carbs; strength training vs. aerobics) and very controversial inside the shop. And when it, too, sold outrageously well, there was a brief opening for work that addressed specific segments of the audience.

Home Workout Bible was actually a failure, at first. It was designed as a book for the direct-to-consumer channels, which I inaccurately perceived as a group that preferred to work out at home. But it was a non-starter with that audience. Over time, though, it became very successful in retail, and four years after its release it still sells okay on Amazon and is still found on shelves in the bigger stores. So even though I was completely wrong about its direct-sales appeal, it worked out to be a profitable book.

Book of Muscle succeeded all around, and that was a specific attempt to reach the most muscle-focused audience. It did well in direct sales and still sells well in retail, which is a hell of an accomplishment, considering the $35 price tag.

I also wanted to do a strength book. That actually tested well with the direct-sales audience, but I ran out of time. I tried to do it post-Rodale, but my agent convinced me it wasn't right for the retail market. So instead I did Muscle Revolution with Chad, and when it comes out next week we'll see if the audience for a book that's mostly focused on strength is as substantial as I had always thought it would be.

Rodale now seems to be cranking out a lot of books that push towards the audience, rather than starting with some kind of pull from the audience. I don't know how they've done in direct-to-consumer sales, but in retail there doesn't seem to be a lot of traction. My guess is that there isn't enough differentiation from one book to the next. They all look to me like they're trying to recapture the magic of Hard Body Plan, but I've always thought that book was a fluke, a success because of its title and cover image (not to mention the fact it had the generic-workout-book market to itself for more than a year).

And on top of cranking out a bewildering number of workout books that all seem to be aimed at the same audience, and don't seem to be driven by any obvious demand from that audience, Rodale is putting out a lot of books in retail that look like they're competing with their direct-to-consumer titles. A year ago, they had a Verstegen book and an Abs Diet-franchised workout book coming out at the same time as a direct-sales book (The Body You Want in the Time You Have).

And all three came out at the same time as NROL, which seems to have held its own against them. (Again, I don't know their sales figures.)

What Rodale does is none of my business, but I do wonder why they're producing so many titles with so little differentiation. And I really wonder if they're listening to the audience, or just throwing products at them.

How do publishers such as Rodale determine what will be a direct sales book and a retail book?

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by gregl515

How do publishers such as Rodale determine what will be a direct sales book and a retail book?

Likely through surveys and demographic sampling.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by laurawd

This thread is timely for me. In the past year, under the influence of the internet (and fitness forums), I've purchased two "online" coaching programs, in addition to a number of related books. Despite ALL the hype, I was truly disappointed by the quality and quantity of the more expensive program - PN's one-on-one coaching. It set me back over 1200 USD for 6 months, and though they provided "individualized" programs each month (I do not believe these were quite as individualized as they claim), I don't feel the programs -- in addition to some back-and-forth email exchanges with the coach -- were worth the money. I wish I had just trusted myself and done the work to design a program myself. I could have achieved the same. Also, I found that the company really over hypes itself. Perhaps I've just become a skeptic.

The other program offered the same - once-a-month workout/nutrition plans, for less than half the price. Just less hype. In terms of customer service, PN was better, but in the end, I really think they hype themselves up so that they can charge you more for pretty much what you can get out of a book.

I'm considering another program - only because I intend to write an article reviewing online coaching programs.

Clarify, please: PN?

[Paradigm]

Precision Nutrition?

[zambro]

I have to admit - many, if not most of the fitness products I have purchased (that were not pieces of equipment) have been disappointing and I feel have not been worth the money. Even the products that everyone says are "the best," and have a lot of hype surrounding them, when I've actually taken a look at the products, I rarely see what the fuss is about.

The only thing I've really found to be worth the money is working out with a good strength coach who really knows what they're doing. I think a lot of people think they have good form and are really working themselves, but if they worked with a good professional, they'd make more progress than any product.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Paradigm

Precision Nutrition?

That was my guess, but just wanted to clarify. We don't want to assume critical comments about people, products, or services. That wouldn't be cricket.

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

That was my guess, but just wanted to clarify. We don't want to assume critical comments about people, products, or services. That wouldn't be cricket.

Certainly not, I was just replying under the basic assumption that you weren't sure what PN stood for. Of course, I could still be wrong, thus the '?'

[Michael Roussell]

Originally Posted by laurawd

This thread is timely for me. In the past year, under the influence of the internet (and fitness forums), I've purchased two "online" coaching programs, in addition to a number of related books. Despite ALL the hype, I was truly disappointed by the quality and quantity of the more expensive program - PN's one-on-one coaching. It set me back over 1200 USD for 6 months, and though they provided "individualized" programs each month (I do not believe these were quite as individualized as they claim), I don't feel the programs -- in addition to some back-and-forth email exchanges with the coach -- were worth the money. I wish I had just trusted myself and done the work to design a program myself. I could have achieved the same. Also, I found that the company really over hypes itself. Perhaps I've just become a skeptic.

The other program offered the same - once-a-month workout/nutrition plans, for less than half the price. Just less hype. In terms of customer service, PN was better, but in the end, I really think they hype themselves up so that they can charge you more for pretty much what you can get out of a book.

I'm considering another program - only because I intend to write an article reviewing online coaching programs.

Interesting...did you have any phone coaching interactions?

[Deserve]

Specific products aside. I think this reinforces what has been a reoccuring theme. Quality of delivery should be a primary concern. Always strive to be better both in terms of delivey and value. As evidenced here it will take you a lot farther.

[Michael Roussell]

Originally Posted by Deserve

Specific products aside. I think this reinforces what has been a reoccuring theme. Quality of delivery should be a primary concern. Always strive to be better both in terms of delivey and value. As evidenced here it will take you a lot farther.

Exactly...Over delivery is a unifying theme of successful people/businesses.