The Internet and the Fitness Business

[Craig]

Most of the adwords for my site are actually put up by some of my affiliates - generally "professional affiliates" that know how to use adwords right. If you don't, you can get spanked.

There are probably 20 different ways to drive traffic to your site (blog, ppc, article marketing, affiliates, teleseminars, etc.).

Seth Godin has some good books on viral marketing.

craig

[tke71709]

Originally Posted by Craig

Most of the adwords for my site are actually put up by some of my affiliates - generally "professional affiliates" that know how to use adwords right. If you don't, you can get spanked.

I run some adwords for affiliate programs that I promote, you're absolutely right in the getting spanked department if you're not careful

[Lou Schuler]

Regarding interaction with the audience:

When I was at MH, I used to describe the message boards to my colleagues as a focus group -- look at the questions people are asking, and create products to address the needs of the audience.

Two of my books were driven by response from readers.

Home Workout Bible came about because, no matter what we did with the workouts in MH, we always had readers who got angry because it didn't address their individual needs. If we showed machines, guys who didn't have access to machines got angry. If we showed a barbell, inevitably someone would protest that we hadn't served the needs of the strict dumbbellitarian community. At the bottom of the food chain were the guys who wanted every workout to be something they could do without any equipment at all.

So we did Home Workout Bible with the intention of showing guys exactly how to do everything with every piece of equipment.

Some people still complained, of course; I think one guy said we were way off on the prices we listed for equipment (I still don't know what he meant, since to my knowledge prices haven't changed all that much since 2002), and other people said we didn't focus enough on which specific segments of muscles different exercises worked.

Book of Muscle kind of evolved from the latter group of questions. Okay, I thought, if guys really want to know what works what, I'll do a whole book on that -- or half a book, since the other half of the book was Ian King's periodized workouts.

The next book, the one for women, will be the third that came from reader questions. It never would've occurred to me to do a book for women, but I got so many responses from women after New Rules came out that I felt inspired to do it.

Maybe there'll be a day when the audience says, "You know, you've really answered every possible question we have about this subject." But it hasn't come yet, thank goodness.

[gobbla]

Out of curiosity. If you know...how did the "reader requested" books do vs the "other" ones? Meaning any number of fat loss or generic exercise book.

Not picking on Craig by any stretch. I just happen to have his pass so I see what he puts out . It seems like the "lose weight" seems to be the meat and taters of what's put out. Is (mass)marketing towards a specific group author suicide? Are their enough people that know what they want and want powerlifting\strongman\anythin g a little more fringe worth most authors time?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by gobbla

Out of curiosity. If you know...how did the "reader requested" books do vs the "other" ones? Meaning any number of fat loss or generic exercise book.

Not picking on Craig by any stretch. I just happen to have his pass so I see what he puts out . It seems like the "lose weight" seems to be the meat and taters of what's put out. Is (mass)marketing towards a specific group author suicide? Are their enough people that know what they want and want powerlifting\strongman\anythin g a little more fringe worth most authors time?

Most fat people want to be thin. Scrawny people don't necessarily want to be big (or don't even know they have an option).

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Lou Schuler

If I'm not serious, I'm in deep trouble. I signed a contract and the book is due to my publisher March 1.

Well, I hope it works for you, but is lifting so different for women that it needed it's own book?

Delavier put out a Strength Training Anatomy for Women. I read a few of the critiques and it seems it's criticized for:

1. Being no different or not singular enough.
2. Leaving out important exercises.

[Lost Dog]

I don't know. Half the diet books out there aren't much different from the others. But, different people buy different books.

Women (in the mainstream, where this book will sell) buy fitness books for women, despite the fact that they could use the unisex version.

Dispelling myths would play a big roll in this book, I'd think. There are a few lifting books aimed at women, and they all have a decent amount of info on "not getting big" and just convincing women to actually try the workouts now that they're holding the book.

[gregl515]

Originally Posted by K-Court

I would have thought the "Snakes on Planes" phenomenon would fit the bill as well.

The first one I remember was the Frankie Say T Shirts for Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

[gregl515]

Originally Posted by ninja

Exactly. Marketing isn't a bad thing. I tried to make that clear. Everyone wants to do everything in their power to promote themselves. Hell, I do it when I try to network with people in my profession. Just getting my name out there is priceless. It's almost more who you know than what you do. But people have to be willing to recognize that. I would consider the Borat stuff more of a subliminal/subconscious effort on my part. It's something that I find truly hilarious--and they're getting exposure out of that-- but it's not something where I think "hey, I gotta promote this movie." Basically, supporting your favorite team is advertising. As far as I am concerned, a Home Depot shirt is the same as a Kansas City Chiefs one. But am I thinking "I gotta get Tony Stewart's name out there, so I need to wear this shirt!" No. I'm showing my approval/like, etc.

And then that kind of leads me into the quality v. quantity debate. Yes, it is who you know, but also, you have to be good at what you do to get where you want to be. It's a combination of both. The people I know in the journalism industry are of no use if I don't prove myself and provide quality work. I could get my name in the paper 40 times this semester doing just a bunch of little shit; or I could write 12 stories that took research and a lot of my time and effort. I think I know what more people would rather have.

Like I've said before in the past two threads, at least to me, quality is much more important that quantity. If you feel that you haven't made your original product the best that it can be, there is no use for expansion. People will look at that anchor, especially if your marketing is aimed towards that. And because people look at that anchor, it needs to be as solid as possible. If it isn't, then why would they spend the extra effort on the accessory products?

A perfect example would be Scrawny to Brawny. I wasn't enamored with the program, there were a lot of typos, and the support that was promised wasn't there. But, I could go and get extra stuff off the internet to compliment the book.

Why would I do that? I didn't like the main product because of the poor quality, so nothing provoked me to go get that extra information. Especially if I had to pay for it.

Scrawny to Brawny seems to have created some bad will for Mike and John here. They seem to have promised more in the area of support than they delivered which is a lesson to all of us in business. However, I found the corrective exercises in the book instructive and I learned a mistake I was making in squats from Mike's description that was worth the price of the book.

[Lou Schuler]

Dispelling myths would play a big roll in this book, I'd think. There are a few lifting books aimed at women, and they all have a decent amount of info on "not getting big" and just convincing women to actually try the workouts now that they're holding the book.

That's only part of it. Another part is talking honestly about endurance exercise, and directly addressing women when doing so. (I had to do all new research on the topic, since I'd used studies on men when I'd written about it previously.)

But the diet component is what's really different about Lift Like a Man vs. NROL. NROL didn't have meal plans, and LLAM will be more like TAP, in that there'll be three week-long plans for different calorie levels. We'll probably use more than one metabolic estimation equation, since the research shows that there's no single estimation that works for all women.

So, even though it was inspired by the response from women to NROL, it's a very different book.

[Lou Schuler]

If you know...how did the "reader requested" books do vs the "other" ones? Meaning any number of fat loss or generic exercise book.

That's a great question. I can't give a complete answer, since I'm no longer at Rodale and don't have access to their sales data.

Here's what I do know:

The big, surprise hit at Rodale, pre-TAP, was Hard Body Plan. I consulted on that book, and my frustration with the process (lots of good, talented writers worked on it, but none had any kind of affinity for the topic -- these were non-lifters doing a book for lifters) led me to TAP.

But Hard Body Plan had a great title, a great cover illlustration, and a nutrition plan by Tom Incledon (my one accomplishment as consultant!). And it sold outrageously well.

TAP was the first fitness/diet book from Rodale with an actual point of view, which was unconventional (more protein and fat with fewer carbs; strength training vs. aerobics) and very controversial inside the shop. And when it, too, sold outrageously well, there was a brief opening for work that addressed specific segments of the audience.

Home Workout Bible was actually a failure, at first. It was designed as a book for the direct-to-consumer channels, which I inaccurately perceived as a group that preferred to work out at home. But it was a non-starter with that audience. Over time, though, it became very successful in retail, and four years after its release it still sells okay on Amazon and is still found on shelves in the bigger stores. So even though I was completely wrong about its direct-sales appeal, it worked out to be a profitable book.

Book of Muscle succeeded all around, and that was a specific attempt to reach the most muscle-focused audience. It did well in direct sales and still sells well in retail, which is a hell of an accomplishment, considering the $35 price tag.

I also wanted to do a strength book. That actually tested well with the direct-sales audience, but I ran out of time. I tried to do it post-Rodale, but my agent convinced me it wasn't right for the retail market. So instead I did Muscle Revolution with Chad, and when it comes out next week we'll see if the audience for a book that's mostly focused on strength is as substantial as I had always thought it would be.

Rodale now seems to be cranking out a lot of books that push towards the audience, rather than starting with some kind of pull from the audience. I don't know how they've done in direct-to-consumer sales, but in retail there doesn't seem to be a lot of traction. My guess is that there isn't enough differentiation from one book to the next. They all look to me like they're trying to recapture the magic of Hard Body Plan, but I've always thought that book was a fluke, a success because of its title and cover image (not to mention the fact it had the generic-workout-book market to itself for more than a year).

And on top of cranking out a bewildering number of workout books that all seem to be aimed at the same audience, and don't seem to be driven by any obvious demand from that audience, Rodale is putting out a lot of books in retail that look like they're competing with their direct-to-consumer titles. A year ago, they had a Verstegen book and an Abs Diet-franchised workout book coming out at the same time as a direct-sales book (The Body You Want in the Time You Have).

And all three came out at the same time as NROL, which seems to have held its own against them. (Again, I don't know their sales figures.)

What Rodale does is none of my business, but I do wonder why they're producing so many titles with so little differentiation. And I really wonder if they're listening to the audience, or just throwing products at them.

[Deserve]

Originally Posted by gregl515

Scrawny to Brawny seems to have created some bad will for Mike and John here. They seem to have promised more in the area of support than they delivered which is a lesson to all of us in business. However, I found the corrective exercises in the book instructive and I learned a mistake I was making in squats from Mike's description that was worth the price of the book.

You'd have to go through the threads to find the heated discussion, which I'm not inclined to do but I don't believe that anyone is disputing the validity of the infotmation.

Lou, bringing this back around to marketing angles. What in your mind makes something direct to consumers or to retail? When you say direct to consumer I think of infomercials and "not available in stores" cheese?

[ninja]

Originally Posted by Deserve

You'd have to go through the threads to find the heated discussion, which I'm not inclined to do but I don't believe that anyone is disputing the validity of the infotmation.

Quality of info-- very good. I'm almost willing to do the program again at some point because now I'll know what I'm doing.

However, it was the presentation so to speak that really was shoddy; and healthily contributes to a low grade overall.

[Lou Schuler]

What in your mind makes something direct to consumers or to retail? When you say direct to consumer I think of infomercials and "not available in stores" cheese?

What I'm talking about is very specific to Rodale. They have an entire apparatus built up that sells books directly to consumers. The big driver is direct mail, although web-driven sales were increasingly important in my years there. (I left in 2004, and don't have any specific information about the marketing or relative success of any of the books released since then.)

The direct-sales machine at Men's Health Books required four titles a year. For a while, IIRC, they were trying to do one fitness book, one health book, one sex book, and one diet/nutrition book a year. Typically, these books were sold by the pound -- they had to be a certain size (around 400 pages) to succeed, since they were selling these books to consumers for over $30, plus shipping and handling. They had to appear substantial first and foremost.

MH Books is only one part of the overall direct-sales operation. Prevention and Organic Gardening also have branded direct-sales books, and I don't know how many other lines of books they have.

The "alpha book" for the entire direct-sales operation was The Doctor's Book of Home Remedies, which sold millions of copies and had countless spinoffs.

At MH Books, the first massive hit was Sex: A Man's Guide. I believe it sold more than a million copies, with about 900,000 in direct sales and 100,000 in retail sales. (They usually put out paperback retail versions of these books, with a typical sales price of $20, vs. more than $30 for the direct-sales hardcover version.)

The Male Body: An Owner's Manual was a big hit in the health category, along with The Complete Book of Men's Health and Age Erasers for Men -- all very generic books with lots of information cobbled together by staffs of writers from a variety of sources.

Peak Conditioning was a successful fitness book, and like the others it was generic and put together in what I'd started to call the factory model. They were just rolling these things off an assembly line.

At the time I got involved, that business model was very tired, and they were looking to try something new. Hard Body Plan was going to be a transition book, and I did what I could to help make it distinctive. Like I said, I think the title and cover design contributed more than I did.

But it was a huge success in direct mail and, to everyone's surprise, in retail.

That right there shifted the strategy to books that could do well in both sales channels.

TAP was next, following the first of several big corporate reorganizations, and it succeeded more in direct sales than in retail because we put an extra nine-week workout into the direct version, so it could be perceived to have more value.

I refused to do that with Book of Muscle; I wanted the same version in both channels, and it ended up working about equally well in both. (It's sold close to 150,000 copies worldwide, which is way less than TAP or Hard Body Plan, but the fact the retail version is a $35 hardcover, rather than a $20 paperback, makes it unique.)

The books they're cranking out now typically get offered in direct mail a few months before they're available as retail paperbacks, and none seems to be catching fire in retail, although I do see some of them on store shelves.

When they decide to go with retail, rather than direct, it tends to be a book with a much more focused appeal. Core Performance is the best example. It sold more than 75,000 copies as a $30 hardcover its first year, and was the most successful retail fitness book we did at MH before Abs Diet.

Charles Staley's Muscle Logic is a different kind of example, a low-investment, low-risk book designed to reach a small, specialized audience. If it didn't find the audience, it wouldn't be a great loss. It does appear to have reached an audience, though, so it's probably considered a modest success. (And I'll alway wonder what would've happened if it had gone out under its original title, Muscles in Minutes. We had to change the title when another book came out first using that name.)

I could ramble all day about this, but I hope this gives a flavor of how the choices are made and how that affects the product you see.

[gobbla]

you ramble and we get smarter!

[Deserve]

This thread has turned out much better than I thought. Sifting through the post I think there are some good nuggets here.

Thanks for the Lou for the understanding of different sales channels.