question on movement planes - JP Fitness Forums

igunick · 11-17-2006, 08:35 AM

Since my PL season is over, I'm going back to basics. So let me see if I still get it, there are 6 movement planes right?
Vertical push/pull
horizontal push/pull
Hip dominant
Knee dominant (quad dom in the past)
Is this still correct?

Also, Knee dominant are squats and deads? and lunges probably too?
Hip dominant is then stuff like GM's, SLDL's and GHR's?

And what to do with OL lifts? are they a seperate group? Or can I split those up? Like jerk/push press would be V pull and Pcleans would be kneeD? or something?

dos · 11-17-2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igunick

Since my PL season is over, I'm going back to basics. So let me see if I still get it, there are 6 movement planes right?
Vertical push/pull
horizontal push/pull
Hip dominant
Knee dominant (quad dom in the past)
Is this still correct?

Also, Knee dominant are squats and deads? and lunges probably too?
Hip dominant is then stuff like GM's, SLDL's and GHR's?

And what to do with OL lifts? are they a seperate group? Or can I split those up? Like jerk/push press would be V pull and Pcleans would be kneeD? or something?

Don't forget rotational movements as well. I have an 'explosive' category as well....this is where all the Oly lift variations go. Don't try to place them in the other categories.

BTW, thinking of stopping in Belgium for a few days in the spring! Ooooooh, the beers!

igunick · 11-18-2006, 06:33 AM

ah yes the beers

I can't wait for my exams to be over

What to you mean with rotation? They only thing I can think of are russian twists or woodchoppers, anything else?

Also how should I balance things?
volume for Knee Dom = Hip dom?
and volume Hpull = Hpush and Vpull= Vpush
Or
volume pull = push?

Alcoholiday · 11-19-2006, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igunick

ah yes the beers

I can't wait for my exams to be over

What to you mean with rotation? They only thing I can think of are russian twists or woodchoppers, anything else?

russian twists

if you're serious about powerlifing, you need to do things in the off season that will make you a better powerlifting in season. Fix injuries, imbalances, weakpoints, and work on overall strength. You're good to focus on the basics, but don't get carried away with doing too much or putting too much thought into it.

Chaney Weiner · 11-19-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igunick

What to you mean with rotation? They only thing I can think of are russian twists or woodchoppers, anything else?

Any type of rotation that is ground based should be done with foot pivots, that is one foot stays pointed straight ahead while the other foot pivots. The only exception to this should be if you are doing rotational movements with a very small ROM. The lumbar spine only allows for very limited rotation. In addition when you rotate other joints in the body(hips, knee, ankle) "pick up" the slack. It STILL amazes me to see people in the gym doing rotation/twisting movements with their feet fixed and using an excessive twisting motion and many times with weight on their shoulders.

Chaney
www.achievingbodiesfitness.com

igunick · 11-20-2006, 07:17 AM

so can you give some examples of that Chaney? I can't really think of any exercises with ground based rotations.

Chaney Weiner · 11-20-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igunick

so can you give some examples of that Chaney? I can't really think of any exercises with ground based rotations.

Using a Free Motion unit or a similar pulley system where you can adjust the heights from low to high:

-Low to high chop
-High to low chop(this one is a bit awkward at first)
-ABC chop-while facing the cable unit do a standing crunch to the left(pivot on the right foot), and then crunch down the middle and then crunch to the right(pivot on the left foot)

There's just a few for now. The key is to foot pivot. If you are also after the abs these exercises will "drill" them if done correctly while you work your hips and other supporting stabilizing structures, and WITHOUT hurting the lumbar spine.

Chaney
www.achievingbodiesfitness.com

dos · 11-20-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaney Weiner

Using a Free Motion unit or a similar pulley system where you can adjust the heights from low to high:

-Low to high chop
-High to low chop(this one is a bit awkward at first)
-ABC chop-while facing the cable unit do a standing crunch to the left(pivot on the right foot), and then crunch down the middle and then crunch to the right(pivot on the left foot)

There's just a few for now. The key is to foot pivot. If you are also after the abs these exercises will "drill" them if done correctly while you work your hips and other supporting stabilizing structures, and WITHOUT hurting the lumbar spine.

Chaney
www.achievingbodiesfitness.com

We bought a bunch of the heavy duty JB bands from performbetter and will either attache them for high-low, low-high or parallel rotations. Best purchase we have made and a lot cheaper and more practical than a free motion-type machine...especially with 100 athletes training at once

Chaney Weiner · 11-20-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

We bought a bunch of the heavy duty JB bands from performbetter and will either attache them for high-low, low-high or parallel rotations. Best purchase we have made and a lot cheaper and more practical than a free motion-type machine...especially with 100 athletes training at once

Again Dos, thanks for bringing that up and yes indeed it is MUCH cheaper and with many athletes training at once it is much more economical. Furthermore, I feel that using the bands are tougher, especially the further out you stand from the bands point of attatchment. I presume that you have your guys using foot pivots? I do use some movements without the pivots but the ROM is very slight.

dos · 11-20-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaney Weiner

Again Dos, thanks for bringing that up and yes indeed it is MUCH cheaper and with many athletes training at once it is much more economical. Furthermore, I feel that using the bands are tougher, especially the further out you stand from the bands point of attatchment. I presume that you have your guys using foot pivots? I do use some movements without the pivots but the ROM is very slight.

Yeah, i actualy have the girls each grab one of the double handles....the guys will grab both and try to get as much rotation as possible. The black super-heavy bands are TOUGH.

Chaney Weiner · 11-20-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

Yeah, i actualy have the girls each grab one of the double handles....the guys will grab both and try to get as much rotation as possible. The black super-heavy bands are TOUGH.

Only thing tougher than the black one is the JC Predator...ever use that one? Do you find that your athletes get bored with the bands because they don't see a "weight stack moving?"

dos · 11-20-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaney Weiner

Only thing tougher than the black one is the JC Predator...ever use that one? Do you find that your athletes get bored with the bands because they don't see a "weight stack moving?"

Nom they have a lot of fun with them, besides, my athletes have never seen a weight stack.

Esteban · 11-20-2006, 07:58 PM

An article by Michael Boyle: "Is Rotation Even a Good Idea?"

http://www.michaelboyle.biz/joomla/content/view/25/34/

Chaney Weiner · 11-20-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esteban

An article by Michael Boyle: "Is Rotation Even a Good Idea?"

http://www.michaelboyle.biz/joomla/content/view/25/34/

Great article. A few points.....

1. The body was built for rotation and certain areas allow for more rotation than others. The lumbar spine is not one of them.

2. Just becaue someone is doing a "twisting movement(ground based) doesn't mean they are rotating the lumbar spine. Rotation from a ground based environment can be done but again with the foot pivots. When you foot pivot, the hips, knees, and ankle al pick up the slack and thus you could say they "protect" the lumbar area from rotation(excessive rotation).

I've spoken to Mike about rotating with foot pivots and he doesn't agree and doesn't think it should be done..unless he changed his stance on this. I've also spoken to JC Santana and he uses it alot and I agree. Just look at the golf swing for example.

Foot pivoting with rotations works the hips and if someone has tight hip rotators then you can expect them to have more rotation coming from the lumbar spine, and of course you do not want that. This is why I use predominantly standing ab exercises because you get more for your money and in less time. Rotation MUST be included in any training program. The body was built to rotate so rotate it.

Lost Dog · 11-21-2006, 12:04 PM

I feel stupid, but I'm having trouble figuring out the foot pivot part. Are there any videos that show this concept in action?

Lost Dog · 11-21-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

BTW, thinking of stopping in Belgium for a few days in the spring! Ooooooh, the beers!

If you're ever down in OC, The Yard House in Irvine has 200+ beers, including many Belgian beers. My Belgian friend's favorite spot to drink a few...

dos · 11-21-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

If you're ever down in OC, The Yard House in Irvine has 200+ beers, including many Belgian beers. My Belgian friend's favorite spot to drink a few...

Can't tell you how manmy times I have frequented that exact yardhouse....not too far away is another on in Costa Mesa! If they ever open one up my way, I'll never leave town.

BTW, think about the foot position of someone after they take a baeball swing or finish a discuss throw. The body starts in one position then finishes more than 90 degrees away from the start (at the sholders). This movement was completed with very little actual spinal rotation...the hips rotate to facilitate this movt. If the foot doesn't pivot, you won't be able to get this range of motion.

back foot pivot...