New Rule of Lifting: Deadlift issue - JP Fitness Forums

Gambit · 11-11-2006, 08:03 AM

I've recently purchased a copy of New Rules of Lfitng and am trying to follow the beginner program recommended.

The problem is that my deadlift (and most likely my squat) form is horrible.
In order for me to get into the start position I have to round from my shoulders to my tailbone!

Is this a lack of flexibilty issue? Do I give the lift up? When I pull I feel it in my back and am put off by the lift because I have abolutely no intention of hurting myself for the sake of saying I deadlift.

Suggestions?

PS: It would have been great if the book showed a progression to learning the deadlift/squat. I mean, there are only 6 basic movements shown in the book so they should have addressed this in greater detail.

Most desk jockeys and weekend warriors, who I am assuming are the target market, do not have the range of motion to perform these lifts properly.

Eric Cressey · 11-11-2006, 08:11 AM

MOve it up and start from a rack pull. If you want to drop me an email, I'll send you a video of it.

ec@ericcressey.com

UConnJulie · 11-11-2006, 08:43 AM

It sounds like a lack of mobility issue in your hips and/or ankles ... check out Magnificent Mobilty ... well worth the money ... you will feel so much better in your day to day life for easing up the movement in those joints ... a common issue with "desk jockeys"!!

And I was going to suggest what Eric did ... start in a rack as low as you can go while maintaining proper positioning in your spine ... you are correct, you do NOT want to injure yourself!!

Chris D · 11-11-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UConnJulie

It sounds like a lack of mobility issue in your hips and/or ankles ... check out Magnificent Mobilty ... well worth the money ... you will feel so much better in your day to day life for easing up the movement in those joints ... a common issue with "desk jockeys"!!

And I was going to suggest what Eric did ... start in a rack as low as you can go while maintaining proper positioning in your spine ... you are correct, you do NOT want to injure yourself!!

Ding ding ding...we have a winner. Get Magnificent Mobility. I'm a desk jockey as well and that DVD has really helped me out a ton. I'm way more flexible than what I was and my deadlift and squat have come a long way since I've been implementing the exercises...speaking of which I should probably implement some more!

diamondpete · 11-11-2006, 08:56 AM

I do not think that flexibility is such a big factor in the deadlift (as say a full squat). I wonder if you are approaching it properly. You should not feel it in your back, which suggests that you are rounding your back. (generally rounding your shoulders only happens when you are doing a max lift (as in your form is breaking down).

I would suggest that you take Eric up on his offer (you can also google the web for videos, until Eric's arrives). I think that you are also wise in deciding not injure yourself to say you deadlift. Continue on that line of thought and take the weight WAY down and work on the form. Basically (as the viddy will show you, you need to keep your spine from rounding) It may sound strange but are you bending your knees?

basically with a dead lift you stand right up to the bar (feet under the bar) while keeping your back straight (neutral spine) bend your knees, and grip the bar about shoulder width (at the start I think an overhand grip is easiest) and stand up. Is this anything like what you are doing?

http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/.../Deadlifts.mpg

As Eric said, you could lift it off of a rack, if you are not flexible enough to bend down.

If you are in an area where you can get access to a trainer who can show you how to deadlift, that would be ideal.

You should seriously take Eric up on his offer (he is a famous guy in the industry and knows what he is talking about- hard to believe that he is so generous with his time, but there it is.)

Hope this helps.

Lisa~ · 11-11-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambit

PS: It would have been great if the book showed a progression to learning the deadlift/squat. I mean, there are only 6 basic movements shown in the book so they should have addressed this in greater detail.

Most desk jockeys and weekend warriors, who I am assuming are the target market, do not have the range of motion to perform these lifts properly.

I totally agree with the suggestions in the previous posts, so I will only address the above comments. If you are writing a book for the general public and want to keep it at a reasonable length and price, then there is only so much information you can address. If the authors had attempted to address all the possible issues that could affect someone's form on the deadlift (and then you'd need to do the same for the squat, push, pull and twist, right?) then the book would have become cumbersomely long. The book has to present the information relevant to a healthy person and leave it to the individual reader to address their own mobility/flexibility/injury issues.

karky · 11-11-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa~

I totally agree with the suggestions in the previous posts, so I will only address the above comments. If you are writing a book for the general public and want to keep it at a reasonable length and price, then there is only so much information you can address. If the authors had attempted to address all the possible issues that could affect someone's form on the deadlift (and then you'd need to do the same for the squat, push, pull and twist, right?) then the book would have become cumbersomely long. The book has to present the information relevant to a healthy person and leave it to the individual reader to address their own mobility/flexibility/injury issues.

Every book cant be the bible.

Patricia · 11-11-2006, 10:44 AM

Shoes.

Don't forget shoes. Your feet should be flat - if you're wearing typical trainers - the heels will be slightly elevated and that causes you to lean forward. Basically screwing up your form in the squat and deadlift right at the beginning.

If you're wearing trainers, stop it and get different shoes.

Frank.S · 11-11-2006, 12:30 PM

Im not sure how much shoes are going to help for a form issue? Maybe a little. Just take your shoes off if you cant afford some chuck taylors.

I think explaining the deadlift on the internet is hard, everyone has a different form. Some people use more back, others use more legs, its all preference and body mechanics. Rounding your back is fine as long as its the upperback, not the lowerback.

Patricia · 11-11-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Im not sure how much shoes are going to help for a form issue? Maybe a little. Just take your shoes off if you cant afford some chuck taylors.

I think explaining the deadlift on the internet is hard, everyone has a different form. Some people use more back, others use more legs, its all preference and body mechanics. Rounding your back is fine as long as its the upperback, not the lowerback.

I'm saying to take the type of footwear into consideration - but not as the cause for all things wrong with deadlift form.

But I do agree that it's hard to evaluate someone's form via these internet forums. Best way is to visually observe someone in action, while performing a deadlift.

I. Kay · 11-11-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Im not sure how much shoes are going to help for a form issue? Maybe a little. Just take your shoes off if you cant afford some chuck taylors.

I think explaining the deadlift on the internet is hard, everyone has a different form. Some people use more back, others use more legs, its all preference and body mechanics. Rounding your back is fine as long as its the upperback, not the lowerback.

Patricia's right in that the shoes are a legit starting point. Not the final solution, but all the small things add up! My form definitely improved when I started taking off my shoes for the deadlift. In fact, one day I pulled snatch-grip style, ended up on my toes because I was shifted forward... the first thing Eric said was "Take off your shoes," which were typical cross-trainers. I now have Chucks and I feel a BIG difference.

Lou Schuler · 11-12-2006, 07:30 AM

Good points about the shoes. I've noticed this in my gym, and even talked to some trainers about it when I noticed their clients struggling with squats or cleans. Cross-trainers start you off with your heels higher than your toes. I hadn't thought about it with deadlifts, but it makes perfect sense that it would be an issue with that lift as well.

Plus, as you get more advanced on the squat and start focusing on foot eversion and inversion, you absolutely need your feet as close as possible to the floor, with nothing solid (like arch supports) blocking their natural movements.

rookie · 11-12-2006, 07:35 AM

I used to wear chucks when lifting. Then I tore them up and put on some running shoes. I notice when doing squas or deads I feel like my toes are going to rip out the front of the shoes. When I wear chucks or even frees I don't notice this at all.

Lou Schuler · 11-12-2006, 07:38 AM

Quote:

If the authors had attempted to address all the possible issues that could affect someone's form on the deadlift (and then you'd need to do the same for the squat, push, pull and twist, right?) then the book would have become cumbersomely long. The book has to present the information relevant to a healthy person and leave it to the individual reader to address their own mobility/flexibility/injury issues.

Thanks Lisa. You only have so many pages to work with, and can produce only so many photos.

Plus, no matter how much information you put in a book, someone will inevitably ask you for something you didn't think of. I still sometimes get emails about Testosterone Advantage Plan. Most questions are legitimate, and many of them are interesting.

But the ones that make me want to start drinking early start off like, "I just bought New Rules of Lifting, and I want to know how to do the workouts in my basement with a bench, a 40-pound dumbbell, a kettlebell, and a length of garden hose."

People generally ask these questions nicely, but every now and then you get someone who's really belligerent about the author's criminal negligence in not directly addressing the needs of the one-leg-is-shorter-than-the-other community, or people who can only train for 7 minutes every other Sunday and want ripped abs, or some other aggrieved party of one that the author is prejudiced against.

rookie · 11-12-2006, 08:08 AM

What is your take on this? Cynic posted this Mistake on MH. Not sure where it is from but it makes sense to an extent.

Mistake #7: Training with multiple reps

Next time you see someone doing multiple reps on the deadlift, take note of the form of each rep. You'll see the later reps look nothing like the first. In competition you only have to pull once, so you need to learn how to develop what's known as starting strength for the deadlift. This is the strength needed to get the bar off the floor without an eccentric (negative) action before the start.

In other words, you don't lower the bar first and then lift the weight as you do with the squat and bench press. When you train with multiple reps you're beginning to develop reversal strength, which isn't needed with the deadlift.

These two reasons are enough to keep the deadlift training to singles. If you're using multiple reps with the deadlift, then stand up in between each rep and restart the lift. This way you'll be teaching the proper form and be developing the right kind of strength.

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/for...412#5981084412

Gambit · 11-12-2006, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the advice.

And actually I am wearing Nike Shox. I'll try to dl barefooted and if it helps I'll get a pair of chucks.

Frank.S · 11-12-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rookie

What is your take on this? Cynic posted this Mistake on MH. Not sure where it is from but it makes sense to an extent.

Mistake #7: Training with multiple reps

Next time you see someone doing multiple reps on the deadlift, take note of the form of each rep. You'll see the later reps look nothing like the first. In competition you only have to pull once, so you need to learn how to develop what's known as starting strength for the deadlift. This is the strength needed to get the bar off the floor without an eccentric (negative) action before the start.

In other words, you don't lower the bar first and then lift the weight as you do with the squat and bench press. When you train with multiple reps you're beginning to develop reversal strength, which isn't needed with the deadlift.

These two reasons are enough to keep the deadlift training to singles. If you're using multiple reps with the deadlift, then stand up in between each rep and restart the lift. This way you'll be teaching the proper form and be developing the right kind of strength.

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/for...412#5981084412

Thats one mans powerlifting point of view. If you can keep your form good multiple reps is just fine.