I知 nearing the end of my current routine (Training for Max Size) and I知 going to be doing a cutting phase (short 2 to 3 weeks) and wanted to get some thoughts on what I知 planning. I got the food part taken care of with Adams Diet, but I have questions about the training part.
During the cutting phase I think I知 going to do the Ripped Rugged and Dense by Marion (he did the Training for Max size routine), but while looking at it I noticed the movements are exactly the same as Training for Max size. All that is different are the reps (5x5 in RR&D). Is going from one program straight into the other going to be bad doing the same type of movements for a long period of time (I guess in all total it would be about 14 to 15 weeks of the same type of movements)? I really do enjoy the movements, but I知 wondering if I知 going to be jeopardizing something. In addition to the RR&D program I知 going to be doing some HIIT after lifting. So 5 days a week of lifting (hopefully) with HIIT after the lifting stage.
Thoughts and opinions on this plan of attack to lose some fat?
The movements in RR&D as well as Training for Max Size are the big money movements (i.e. squats, deads, bench, dips, etc). If you were developing your own routine, those would be the ones you would want to use anyway.
The stimulus applied in the two different programs is totally different (RR&D is 5x5 I believe, while Training for Max Size is a variation of different reps, sets, loads and tempos, depending on the stage). This is by memory, so hopefully I'm pretty close with this.
Since the stimulus applied is different, there would be no problem going from one routine to the other.
as for the HIIT - I wouldn't do it 5 days/wk. 3 days/wk would be plenty.
Doing the same lifts won't really be a problem. Its the rep ranges that you need to switch.
But I question going right from bulking with TFMS to cutting, especially just for a 2-3 week time.
5 days a week of weights + HIIT is a ton. You are looking at serious burnout. The reason for using something like a 5x5 plan while cutting is to keep the volume low.
Danny
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Thanks for the help. Live4football I agree that I should cut the HIIT back somewhat to three times.
Danny, I'm mainly looking to lose some fat but try and maintain the muscle that I did gain. What would you suggest doing to accomplish this? I'm mainly going for 2 to 3 weeks just to see if I can do it more than anything. I'm open to any suggestions. I have been eating cleaner and I think the fat has gone down, but I'd like to start seeing some of the muscle I've put on. [img]smile.gif[/img] T
Chris...ma man...do the r r and d program as it is written up, brotha Joel knows his shiot. Tack on 2-3 nice intense HIIT days on upper body days later that night with atleast 6hrs after your weights. I've lost 7% body fat doing that in ... lets see... uhhhh... i dont know about 8 weeks. That's about 14lbs of fat. I have it all tracked on mybodycomp.com if you wanna pm me up and get some proof. That's what i prescribe, go for it biggun.
Thanks for the advice. As I've heard so many people say what works for someone else may not work for you. So I'm going to give it a try and see what the results are. Not sure I'll be able to do 2 work outs in a day, but we'll see how it goes.
Again thanks and I hope that I have the same sort of results. If I'm lucky I'll be able to post some pictures like Johnka!! Or even JP!
The concept behind RR&D is that whilst you're lifting heavy, you're only doing 2 lifts per day. This helps avoid the burnout that Danny mentions. You should be fine.
C. Dorr, you have gotten some pretty good advice so far. I haven't actually looked at the full out plan for RRD 2.0 in a while, but I know it is based around low volume, frequent, high intensity weight sessions which is good, I just wonder if too often people go with too much frequency too early because its going to take a week or two for the burnout to really show. Thats why I questioned the 5 days a week plus HIIT. HIIT really only needs to be done 2-3 times a week max like Rev recommended.
When I mentioned going right from a bulk to a cut, its a problem that a lot of people fall into. They just finish eating a ton and adding a bunch of muscle so they want it to show and to do they they drop calories a bunch, add in HIIT sessions and try to diet. Problem is the body is still used to getting a bunch of excess calories and by dropping so quick you don't ever have a chance to "solidify" those gains. You are more likely to lose the new muscles going from a bulk to a cut too fast.
Thats also why I was wondering about the 2-3 week time frame. It sounded almost like you wanted to crash diet for a couple weeks to see how it would go which for the above mentioned reasons would be bad.
What I would do is slowly bring cals down a bit, get around maintenence level, then add in the HIIT sessions. This will take and extra couple weeks but will be worth it when you hold on to more muscle.
Danny
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Limitations are for people who have them.
Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify more about the cut I'm planning. The cut I'm planning on doing is not to lose gobs of fat, but to just lower it a bit. I realize that with 2 to 3 weeks, it will be dang near impossible to get anywhere. However if I can cut a percentage or 2 off it would be nice (I started at 18.7 in October and I'm hoping that I'm near 15 right now...and can get to 13 or so with this cut, but I maybe way off in my estimates right now). I kind of envision doing this 2 or 3 week cut, then doing another program that I can work some cardio into (something along the Turbulence Training I'm thinking?). I like your idea of tapering into a cut. How much less calories should one do while on a cut?
All of this is really new to me as you can tell, so any and all advice is appreciated. I'd like to think that I could do it right the first time, but I know that won't be the case. It's going to be a work in progress.
With all the advice I received here's the tenative plan.
- Do RR&D 2.0 (5 days a week lifting)
- HIIT on upper body days (not sure if I'll be able to do the split days the Rev suggested, but I think I understand why they should be done).
- Use Adams diet as much as possible.
Thanks again for all the advice and if there's more out there it's always appreciated as well.
rr&d 2.0 is a four days on one day off routine. Go through the four days all back to back, take a day off, start over again. The volume is low to accomodate your caloric deficit as if you were to perform high volume in one day, there would be a lack of energy and nutrient resource to adequately restore your freshly trained lean muscle tissue.
Judging on the factors of you having your caloric intake adjusted just, follow the diet well, and perform your HIIT properly at the right times, I would suggest taking a full four weeks for this phase. If everything is on key you will probably lose 2-3% body fat within one month without strength/muscle loss.
This training setup can get pretty crazy I'll just tell you right now. It's very scheduley demanding, you have to be really flexible. But if you are dedicated enough, it just flat out works awesome. Also listen to your body, if you're scheduled to do HIIT one night and your body is saying just let me sleep im exhausted, then just do 2 HIIT for that week.
Oh...I just ready D's post above, oops. I agree with him totally on the easy with the calorie decrease...actually I am a testimony of that. You're probably used to 500 over your caloric intake and not doing any cardio on your bulking cycle.
Though rr&d is performed 6 times per week, the volume is so low (10 sets of 5 reps per workout) that it actually adds up to the same amount of volume you find in a regular full blow 16 set 4 workouts a week routine. Your volume is virtually the same switching to rr&d and that means your caloric intake (energy expenditure) is the same as well. This is excluding later added HIIT, follow me on this one.
So I agree with D there too as not adding HIIT right in, go to rr&d, same volume as your former routine which works out nicely, drop to active maintenance caloric intake (use harris benedict formula), stay there until you stop losing weight (probably a week), then add HIIT, and that should be all she wrote. Please don't dive bomb your calories dude...I can't watch you do that.
Again thanks for the advice. I'll take the advice of all and add the HIIT in slowly. I know previously I was burning myself out pretty quickly by doing lots of heavy weights and HIIT, so I'm going to make sure that it doesn't happen this time.
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