Lets say I have this "friend"...we'll call him bob. Bob is fairly dedicated and wants to be a team player and work out, he's in decent shape, would like to go to get some "bang for buck" gym time. The problem with bob is he can only go to the gym twice a week. He's not opposed to calistenics or doing "things" during the week but physically going to a gym is only possible 2x a week.
Now bob is a pain in the ass in this reguards and would like to lift heavy things. He's read eric, tony, dave, ect and understands the importance of lifting blood vein exploding heavy stuff. The concern with twice a week is how you'd lay it out. Is it even worth messing with singles thru triples in this manner?
Why don't you let Old Guy ask his own questions? :p
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I think he could do fine working out twice a week. He could then just lift with dumbbells or bodyweight exercises at home a 3rd day. How I'd set it up though would depend on the goals and what days he could make it to the gym.
I think two workouts with higher volume of his priority exercises will absolutely do the trick. Then on off days he could do heavy unweighted stuff like push ups (1-arm, semi-1 arm), pull ups and chins (one arm or assisted with one arm), 1-arm inverted rows, pistols, airborne lunges, L-sits, etc.
Then of course we would need to know why your friend wants to lift heavy things
The real "goal" is a decent 1600m run time. Nothing that will shatter the perception of what a human can achieve, but something that most people would respect as being "decent".
The actual running portion is going fairly well. 3x a week doing either 400\800m sprints or a 5k "hard jog" (more as a recovery thing than a training tool...and it doesn't require a track, so minutes out of the day isn't such an issue). The lifting is pretty much a non-existant. Some pushups now and then...that's pretty much it.
Two things that really had me curious more than anything.
1. Would their be any reason to\not to, do one day w\ a heavy day (3 lifts, lower, push, pull) and the second to be more volume related like EDT or something like that?
2. Most lifting coaches say "always lift before energy systems training"...followed by "always do the highest priority training first". So if the energy system training IS the priority, does it win out? Does the fatigue caused by lifting have enough "whatever" to give the EST afterwards a marvelous boost? It just seems crazy to go and to go studly on squats\deadlifts and go out a few minutes later and try to get in quality run time.
it'd be extremely difficult. working a rotating shift every week (am\pm\am\pm), combined with 2 kids (1 infant), the gym hours being closed before\after work, and no way to do speed work when it's dark...it'd be difficult. that's the real kicker why the weights have been non-existant for the past few months. on days when I "can" get out and do it, I can spend up to 3 hours doing whatever I want. But the "can" time is very limited and the running is a "have to do" vs a "want to do".
so how is the plan going? We've been thinking about the problem here, you guys are not focusing on the solution.
How many hours total (gym and non gym time) does he have a week to dedicate to this?
2 days a week up to 3hrs w\ full access to facilities (gym\track)
1-3 days a week 1hrs w\ minimum equipment (open road likely during dark hours, some basic dumbells\medicine ball, no bench.)
I remember an article, and I also remember sending it to my son, but have not been able to track it down. I thought it was in Turbulent Training. The gist of it was that a guy (or gal) with only 90 minutes a week could do two 45 minute programs that would maintain strength and fitness.
Each day, 25 minutes of, for example, an NROL program, but a shortened form of it, then 20 minutes of intervals. The article then went on that if the person can spend 45 minutes instead of 25 weight lifting, so much the better.
The rationale of the program was that by lifting even a single program of a good mix of exercises, and making the weights heavy you get a powerful body boost even from this limited number of sets and reps. And likewise the body challenge of 20 minutes of a really good set of intervals will keep your body fit. The two together, he went on, will do the trick.
The real "goal" is a decent 1600m run time. Nothing that will shatter the perception of what a human can achieve, but something that most people would respect as being "decent".
The actual running portion is going fairly well. 3x a week doing either 400\800m sprints or a 5k "hard jog" (more as a recovery thing than a training tool...and it doesn't require a track, so minutes out of the day isn't such an issue). The lifting is pretty much a non-existant. Some pushups now and then...that's pretty much it.
Two things that really had me curious more than anything.
1. Would their be any reason to\not to, do one day w\ a heavy day (3 lifts, lower, push, pull) and the second to be more volume related like EDT or something like that?
2. Most lifting coaches say "always lift before energy systems training"...followed by "always do the highest priority training first". So if the energy system training IS the priority, does it win out? Does the fatigue caused by lifting have enough "whatever" to give the EST afterwards a marvelous boost? It just seems crazy to go and to go studly on squats\deadlifts and go out a few minutes later and try to get in quality run time.
Gobbla,
Here's a twice a week program from Alwyn Cosgrove that I really, really like. The Holiday Program. It has some lower reps (not singles) like 3, 4, or 5 for explosive lifts, and the whole program uses undulating periodization so you'll change the rep schemes from workout to workout. This program will cover your lifting.
If the running is your priority, then prioritize it by giving it the majority of your days and time. On a lifting day, lift first (so that you're not exhausted while lifting) and do sprint training that works to increase the speed of your runs in the time remaining. That's only twice a week. On the other days, work on your runs doing the full distance and working to increase your time. Any other time you have at home, like when it's dark, do any needed mobility/flexibility work, foam rolling, or other recovery modalities. There would be no need for additional lifting at home with that program.
Lisa, that looks like a great program. I dunno but I *think* Dave has done that one in the past. It's been so long since I've seen it!
here's a little blurb from a newsletter I got
Quote:
Q: I am thinking of training for a half- or full marathon, which means more days for running and less days for weight training. Over the past 6 months or so I have typically been using heavy weights (5-8 reps) about 3x per week, and doing 2 HIIT workouts per week(sprinting at the track). I am happy with my physique and am not looking to gain muscle at this point, but I don't want to lose what I have. So when I work up to running 5 days per week, will 2 full-body weight routines per week be enough to maintain the muscle? When I ask questions like this on a bodybuilding site I get flamed for doing too much cardio, and on a running site they tell me not to do any weight training for fear of getting "too big". I am a 39 year old mother of 4 little kids - not looking to break any records or enter any contests; just want to keep my muscle and do some more running. If you had 4 kids, getting out for a 2 or 3 hour run would sound good to you too!!!
A: Yes, I think that's the best way to do it. Two short full body workouts are more than enough to maintain muscle mass and strength. Pick a handful of exercises and work warmups to 1-2 sets of 6-8 fairly heavy and you should be fine; it should take you maybe 30-40 minutes tops. In the face of half-marathon training, you're not going to be gaining appreciable muscle mass in the first place. For sequencing, I'd suggest putting weights on the same days as your runs (if your schedule allows it). What you don't want to do is lift the day before a run (especially the long run). Doubling up some of the workouts will give you better overall recovery as well. So figure your long run is probably on Saturday. If you lift on Wednesday/Saturday (after running) and take Thursday and Sunday off, you can run 5 days/week and get two days completely off.
I think that's good advice. Let me also just throw in the caveat that I've worked with very few runners and none who ran for great distances. So how to schedule the running isn't something I've worked with before. I like the answer above and on the schedule you posted, with 3 hours twice a week, you could do the workout and then the long run, taking the next day off. That sounds right to me. They say to run then lift. You'll just have to see how that feels! I can't imagine doing that lifting program after a long run!
the one thing that I have going for\against me, is a bum knee. Last year about this time I got an overuse injury, and basicly stopped most everything for about 6 months. Easing back into it was a real trial an error thing. My rule is "if it hurts, or will cause you to hurt, don't do it". So after hurting for some time now, I've learned:
only small volume\light weight knee dominate, big ROM stuff.
no long runs
Doing a little reading on it, it works out pretty good for the running. For my distance 99% of steady state running is garbage, so short duration high intinsity stuff works out well on both fronts.
My only real concern with the lifting (short of hampering the running) is the quad\knee dominate work, or lack of. What kind of potential bad things would happen if I focus primarily\near exclusively on hip dominate work?
My only real concern with the lifting (short of hampering the running) is the quad\knee dominate work, or lack of. What kind of potential bad things would happen if I focus primarily\near exclusively on hip dominate work?
Honestly, I just don't have enough information to answer that! So anything I say from here on is a guess (maybe an educated guess, but still a guess, ok?).
Maybe you're knee injuries are indicative of quad dominance, which isn't unusual for a runner. If that's the case, then focusing on hip dominate, big ROM lifts would be beneficial. I would want to take away all quad dominant exercises, but you should always work in a pain free ROM and so make choices of lifts that do not cause pain and work to correct technique for those that do.
It's a lot better than the bullshit the doctor gave me After scoffing at stretching my adult life, it has become my lifes work. I'm a missionary of the good book of stretch.
twice a week
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