The Leg Matrix - JP Fitness Forums

flying scotsman · 10-25-2006, 12:29 PM

On Alwyn's Blog ( http://www.alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/ ) he talkes about using the Leg Matrix as a "finisher".

Within the Blog is a link to Steve Shafley's video Blog ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDvXX4hBkVU ) in which he performs the Leg Matrix.

What a hoot

I like the premise of the Leg Matrix as a conditioning tool, but wondered about how one might incorporate such "finishers" in the grand scheme of things. My initial thoughts were that "finishers" kind of have a random, unplanned feel about them and that they might be difficult to fit in with a well planned, otherwise carefully balanced program.

So, how would you decide when a finisher is appropriate? Are all clients (athletes and non-athletes alike) ok for finishers? Since they are done at the end of a regular training session and presumably in a fatigued state, how wary should we be of exercise form given how hard finishers can be?

Alwyn, or anyone, what are your thoughts and does anyone have any other finisher examples?

Ian

By the way, I tried the Tabata protocol the other day.

Oh.
My.
Fug.

I performed it by first cleaning two dumbells up to shoulder level with a neutral (palms facing) grip. Performed a deep squat with DBs at shoulder height and then as I rose up I pressed the DBs into a shoulder press. After 20 secs I rested for 10 secs. Repeat 7 more times. That's it.

Hell? Oh yeah.

Go on, try it

dos · 10-25-2006, 12:54 PM

I use 'finishers' in my own workouts and my athlete's workouts pretty regularly. I like the fitness aspect of it plus one of our goals is to always build work capacity, tolerate greater workloads etc. I think they have a place in 'most' people's workouts.

Frank.S · 10-25-2006, 02:17 PM

I have used these in the past and loved them.

Something for time generally I liked best (or distance).

Farmers walks, grip holds, hangs for time, bridges, its all good. Dont go overboard on it, but just every week or two try to improve.

Bill2380 · 10-25-2006, 05:25 PM

I loved the video. After watching the hot Cross Fit chicks bang out that kind of workout in record time, it's great to see a real guy sweating, cursing and almost falling over. I'm trying it tomorrow.

kuri · 10-25-2006, 06:10 PM

I love using finishers except after strength workouts. I'm usually too tired to do a whole lot after those so do conditioning in separate workouts. I'll even use these after power workouts.

I wouldn't think it would be appropriate for all clients but it should be fine for most who have built up a reasonable strength base and level of conditioning.

It's also a good way to challenge oneself and as we all know nothing is more fun than 5 minutes of Tabatas

A few that I use are burpees, heavybag work, and rope skipping.

Alternating Tabata rounds of pullups and pushups are another.

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 03:43 PM

First a word on the video...I admire that guy for attempting it. However I must say that his form was terrible and one can get hurt doing it the way he did. The whole idea is to progress and to do so based on success and not to just "sweat or grunt" your way through it.

As for doing these at the end, yes it is a great finisher. For some people this can also be used as a warm up so it depends on the level of individual and where one would do it. I typically have people do them at the end and usually at least3-4 rounds in a row.

While we're on the matrix thing. Has anyone ever tried the push up one?

dos · 10-26-2006, 07:12 PM

Hmmm, must be a different leg matrix from the one that I use....can't imagine anyone completing 3-4 sets of thes at the end of a workout.

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

Hmmm, must be a different leg matrix from the one that I use....can't imagine anyone completing 3-4 sets of thes at the end of a workout.

Well the one I was using went 20-20-20-10 instead of the 24-24-24-12 that was in the video. I've had a few people do 5-6 in a row.

Frank.S · 10-26-2006, 07:45 PM

If you can actullay do about 20 seconds worth of these things, you wernt working your legs hard enough.

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

If you can actullay do about 20 seconds worth of these things, you wernt working your legs hard enough.

In this type of stuff it is the speed that adds to the intensity. Once you get conditioned doing this it is not so hard to knock out 3 in a row.

dos · 10-26-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank.S

If you can actullay do about 20 seconds worth of these things, you weren't working your legs hard enough.

I'm with Frank.....Even my best conditioned athletes have a hard time with 2 sets. The whole purpose of 24's as a finisher is, in fact, to survive this finish. Guess I wasn't in the type of condition I thought I was???

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

I'm with Frank.....Even my best conditioned athletes have a hard time with 2 sets. The whole purpose of 24's as a finisher is, in fact, to survive this finish. Guess I wasn't in the type of condition I thought I was???

In fact I kind of got away of doing this Matrix( or JC leg crank as it is also called) and did the squat thrust and jump one instead, which is more difficult.

dos · 10-26-2006, 09:15 PM

I'm obviously playing with this topic CW. I am tongue-in-cheek with my 'I'm not in as good of shape as i thought' comments. I think I'm in pretty solid condition (and so are most of my athletes). To perform 24 speed squats (not partial squats), 24 deep squat jumps, 24 lunges and then 24 deep split squat jumps as fast as possible will kick just about anybody's ass......anybody's. If you have an unedited video of you or one of your clients doing 5 rounds (or even 3 rounds) of this matrix and even being able to stand upright at the end I'm sure that we would all love to see it.

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos

I'm obviously playing with this topic CW. I am tongue-in-cheek with my 'I'm not in as good of shape as i thought' comments. I think I'm in pretty solid condition (and so are most of my athletes). To perform 24 speed squats (not partial squats), 24 deep squat jumps, 24 lunges and then 24 deep split squat jumps as fast as possible will kick just about anybody's ass......anybody's. If you have an unedited video of you or one of your clients doing 5 rounds (or even 3 rounds) of this matrix and even being able to stand upright at the end I'm sure that we would all love to see it.

I had them do 20-20-20-10. Some of them did the jump split squats and some did the box shuffles. I have video of them doing one round because I never shot video of more than one. I also have video of them doing the squat thrust and jump circuit which consists of 20 squat jumps, 20 squat thrusts and 20 squat thrust and jumps. That circuit is alot tougher and only a few of them ever did 2.

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 09:43 PM

I will put up the video for the squat thrust and jump one which is far more difficult.

Chaney Weiner · 10-26-2006, 10:11 PM

Ok here ya go. On this particular day the ones who finished first did it in 1:29. The best I've had anyone do it in is 1:07 and some were routinely doing it in 1:12- 1:20. I've only had a few do two of these in a row. The last guy in the back did 2 in a row and he is one of the ones who was ultimately knocking this out in 1:15-1:20. Keep in mind I had them do these AFTER doing 4-5 circuits of 12 stations with 30 sec on 15 off and about 1-2 minutes in between circuits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZU2GR6SMvU

Funk · 10-27-2006, 02:22 AM

No doubt that that's a lot of work for those kids, CW- but why not do full butt-to-ankle squat jumps, and why not jumps with arms to the ceiling on the burpees(to go for a full quadruple extension)? It's those little differences that pay big dividends in sport and when it's time to compete/perform and they're limiting their range of motion and the flexion in their backs isn't necessarily optimal. The one dude on the durpees is almost stuck in a right angle at his hips.

In regards to the earlier posts, i had high school baseball players doing sets of the 24's as regular conditioning, but the times you guys are claiming seem to be pretty damn fast and w/o too much rest time compared to what I got out of my guys, and they were little fitness machines. Then again, I was using them as a basis for explosive training and not a finisher, so maybe that's where the extra time went. Spending so much time airborne off of the squat jumps and split squats probably added on large fractions of a second with each rep.

dos · 10-27-2006, 04:29 AM

CW, thanks for posting vid...now we can see that it's apples vs. oranges.

Some observations:
1) the squat thrust one is NOT harder. Your legs get a rest when you go down to your hands (the one male almost never changes his knee angle the entire set....)
2) the jump squats were about 1/4 squats (maybe)
3) I saw 20 jumps, 20 burpees, and what (I think) were supposed to be 20 burpees with a jump (although it was hard to tell the diffrerence between the two burpee variations with most of the subjects. Still not the 20-20-20-10 that you mention.
3) the form is diabolical - come on now. You would be better off doing old-fashioned 'up-downs' instead of those burpees....at least you would get some upper body work in and the knees would have to at least bend some when getting up from the bottom position.

And....they still only did one round.
About three posts ago you were talking about people doing 5-6 rounds !!!
These guys don't even do this ONE round properly.

Let's see the "easy" version - 24 squats, 12 lunges each leg , 12 lunge jumps each leg and 24 jump squats that Alwyn was talking about. Let's see some people doing 4 rounds of that. Not gonna happen. BTW, when done CORRECTLY, it is impossible to complete this leg matrix in less than 90 seconds.