Not quite sure what I should do... - JP Fitness Forums

Lovemachine46147 · 08-30-2006, 06:36 PM

Its been a long time since I've posted on here. I'm a 23 year old guy. I'm 5'8, 160lbs, 16%BF. My goal is to be anywhere between 180-190lbs, hopefully no more than 10%BF. Waist size is 34, slight gut and lovehandles. I'm currently trying to follow Men's Health Testosterone Advantage Program, and following Dr. John Berardi's Precision Nutrition. So I lift 3 times a week, and I run for about 20 minutes 3 days a week.

My diet is fairly well I think. I'll admit I'm still a beginner though.
I've been reading posts on here, and posts on www.t-nation.com. I have been trying to reduce my BF%, and then had planned to bulk. But after doing some reading, I'm not sure if I should just bulk instead. I always thought that bulking at 16%BF was a bad idea. But I'm afraid if I just try to reduce it, I'll get too small. For a guy who is 5'8, I think anything under 160lbs is too small.
So I just bought the book Scrawy to Brawny. Been reading it for a few days now. And I was really hoping if you guys could give me some advice on what to do. Keep trying to cut, or should I try to bulk for a while and then cut? I don't want to get fat, but I do want to be muscular. Don't want to be a skinny fat guy either.
I'll be very grateful for any advice/info you guys can give me.
Thanks so much!

Lost Dog · 08-30-2006, 06:52 PM

Scrawny to Brawny is a good book, with a terrific workout. The nutrition info is solid, too. But, you don't sound scrawny. Follow that, right now, and you might just get fat.

Byt the way, were you fat before?

How long have you been lifting?

New lifters have a rare advantage, in that they may be able to lose some fat while they gain some muscle.

JoshDunn · 08-30-2006, 07:31 PM

(Lost dog you pic is dam freaky)

My thoughts would be following PN you can get great results that will look good. Eating low carb and having a big post workout carb up means you have heaps of energy. Loss fat and seem to add mass. Concentrate on your lifting and PN and don't bother too much with the scales.

Jason B · 08-30-2006, 07:35 PM

My advice is to 'bulk.' I put bulk in quotes cause a lot of people think bulking is eating everything in sight to put on muscle and ignoring fat gain. That's completely untrue and certainly not the only way to put on muscle. Read Berardi's Massive Eating series for a great plan to bulk and keep fat to a minimum. John does say that a huge factor in how much muscle you gain vs. fat gain while overfeeding is your starting bf%. He says that people over 15% will most likely gain more fat than muscle, but these studies are in untrained individuals. I believe the element of training almost negates these studies. Yes, people with slightly higher bf% may be more susceptible to fat gain while overfeeding due to slower metabolism, but that's not inevitable, it just means you'll have to be more careful. But the upside to the higher bf% (I believe anyway) is the ability for the body to gain muscle while losing fat (for a short time anyway) if training and diet are done properly. Follow Berardi's advice in the massive eating re-loaded plan.

Lost Dog · 08-30-2006, 07:42 PM

If you do the Scrawny to Brawny eating plan (or Massive Eating (S2B is basically an updated Massive Eating), make sure to follow the flowchart over the weeks of adding calories. Don't do your calorie calculations and go for it. You'll get fat. Those calories are the estimated level that you EVENTUALLY may get to. Most people who aren't actually scrawny, shouldn't ever get to those levels.

The eating philosophy is still good though. Just don't get all excited about how much you're going to be able to eat. It may not come to pass...

Lovemachine46147 · 09-01-2006, 06:59 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll try to lose a little fat first. I don't want to get fat. I figure I'll try to lose some pounds, without getting under 150, and then try to bulk. I don't think I should get fat then, hopefully.

Thanks again for the advice. I really do appreciate it.

Waittz · 09-03-2006, 02:57 PM

The lower your bodyfat the better before you start to bulk. You'll put on more muscle than fat compared to a higher bf start.

Frank.S · 09-03-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSteve

The lower your bodyfat the better before you start to bulk. You'll put on more muscle than fat compared to a higher bf start.

Ive always heard this,

But ive never actually seen this be true in real life, or found this to be the case myself.

Infact, I have almost found the opposite. At 15% bf it would be hard to go to 20%bf while eating big and training hard. From 10% to 15% went quicker for me. I actually find I gain the most muscle around 15-7%bf, but thats higher then most people are willing to go.

Lovemachine46147 · 09-04-2006, 09:55 AM

I've heard both things. Bulking at a lower BF% is better, and that its easier to gain a lot of muscle if your at a little higher BF%. Trying to find the best way to go is really frustrating and confusing sometimes.

Tony Gentilcore · 09-04-2006, 10:04 AM

You're 23 and probably have never really trained the "right" way. Don't worry about the minutia. ANY program (albeit one that is balanced and helps improve your weaknesses) will work. The key is to be CONSISTENT and not let your mind turn into one massive cluster fuck: should I bulk? should I cut? should I do this program? no wait, this program looks better, I will do this one!

If you're lifting 3 times per week, I certainly hope you're doing three FULL body workouts, and not doing a body part split where you're doing bi's/back, chest/shoulders, and legs.

Diet. Yes, it CAN be complicated. But in my experience, people waaaaaaay overcomplicate things. Your body is smarter than you and as long as you give it the RIGHT fuel it needs, you will be fine. Focus on lean meats, non-refined carbs (grains, fruit, veggies), and get your healthy fats in. If you're doing Precision Nutrition, you should be all set.

Have you ever been lean? This is an important question.

Lovemachine46147 · 09-04-2006, 04:08 PM

Have I ever been lean? I guess everyone's definition of the word lean is different. I've never been able to see my abs. My weight has pretty much stayed the same since my Junior year of High School. Always between 150-160lbs. BF% has been between 15-16%. My arms aren't big, not defined, just kinda, well, skinny. So I really don't have a whole lot of muscle mass, sad to say. But I think I'm in better shape than I've been in the past.
Workouts, I've been trying to follow Testosterone Advantage Program. I quit for a while, was under too much stress from work to do anything. Got that fiixed now, and I'm on Phase 2 at the moment.
Don't know if that answers your question or not....

Tony Gentilcore · 09-05-2006, 06:57 AM

Yeah it does. Get in the gym and fucking lift some weight...............repeatedl y.........

Remember, the key word is CONSISTENCY! And IMO, you don't need to be doing any "fat loss" plan or phase. You're 160 lbs. Clean up the diet (this alone will work wonders, and it does include making sure you're eating enough), do some light cardio 3x's per week, and train with some intensity. The fact that you responded with, "my arms big or defined, but kinda well....skinny" tells me that you don't train with any and that you sound like a girl......:p Who cares how big your arms are? If that's what you're more concerned about, then I think you need to reset your priorities. Train to get STRONG using the big boys (squat, deadlift, rows, bench press, etc)......your arms will get big, trust me. You train to get strong, everything else will fall into place. Lift some weight my man!!!