Chiropractic Adjustments +/-

[Pitbull]

What do you guys think about regular chiropractic adjustments. Would this aid, hurt, or have no affect on someones physical fitness? I've been thinking of getting adjusted regularly. I thought that this might improve performance and recovery.

[poopy pants]

Where's Eugene when you need him? ...over at the Style Forum I bet.

[Tin Man]

My family and I go regularly...yep the little kids too. My practioner does Network Chiro...not the skeletal adjustments. It works by activating the nervous system to realign your body...it is gentle and I find it works well for me and my family.

My wife swears by it ...her chronic back condition has been eliviated to the point where she can funtion "normally" during any given day.

I would make sure you do some homework and talk to patients and the Doc before you make that leap.

[russ]

Those who know me won't be surprised to hear my dissenting view. So I'll state it plainly and clearly. There is no scientific basis for regular Chiropractic adjustments. Spinal manipulation likely does have some benefit in the setting of low back pain, and, perhaps, neck pain and headaches. Many chiros tout regular adjustments as a route to 'optimal health' (whatever that means) by removing 'nerve interference' caused by 'subluxations'. This hypothesis was proposed over 100 years ago and there is not one iota of proof to support it. IMHO, regular adjustments are a monumental waste of time and $$ and promote reliance on your chiro (i.e. 'I can't function without my chiro'). There is no evidence that regular adjkustments will improve physical performance or fitness.
Tin Man--I respect your decision to pursue regular Chiropractic care, but I can guarantee you that you won't find any hard scientific data to support your decision (there are folks on this board who will be happy to evaluate any studies you can find regarding regular 'adjustments'). But it's your prerogative to choose to believe in it.

There are many sites promoting Chiropractic, so I'll provide a well-known skeptical site:
www.chirobase.org
I don't agree with all of the opinions on that site, but most of the factual information there is dead on. Note that this site also provides many links to sites favourable to Chiropractic.

http://www.chirobase.org/17QA/network2.html

This commentary by a skeptical Chiropractor discusses Network Chiropractic. You're free to disagree with me on this , Tin Man, but any benefit that you get from Network Chiropractic is likely a placebo effect. The evidence supporting the notion that it activates your nervous system and realigns your body is about equal to the evidence supporting the existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Hannukah Harry (SNL fans mau recall that skit with Jon Lovitz )

Here's a link from a spot about Chiropractic which appeard on a major Canadian network last night (I didn't watch it--I was playing hockey). The video from the spot is available on this site:

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/f...es/pg_one.html

[russ]

Where's Eugene when you need him? ...over at the Style Forum I bet.

He's deciding whether or not to buy Zanella pants or Cole Haan shoes

[ January 21, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Tony Soprano ]

[bryanc]

Nothing to add to russ, except that geez, I bet you didn't know what kind of button you were pushing; and I won't be one of those people who will be happy to evaluate any studies for the next few months.

[russ]

This commentary by a skeptical Chiropractor discusses Network Chiropractic. You're free to disagree with me on this , Tin Man, but any benefit that you get from Network Chiropractic is likely a placebo effect.

From the dictionary of Metaphysical Healthcare:

Network Spinal Analysis (Network, Network Chiropractic, Network Chiropractic Spinal Analysis): Conspicuously vitalistic form of chiropractic founded in 1983 by Donald M. Epstein, D.C. It embraces the following principles. (a) An innate or "resident" intelligence ("inborn wisdom") governs all human biological processes through the nervous system and never harms the body. (b) This "intelligence" directs the "life force" ("vital life energy" or "vital life force"), which bestirs every cell. (c) Malposition of the spinal cord, nerves, and vertebrae can cause mechanical tension that may impede the "vital life force." (d) Mental and chemical stress can cause such mechanical tension. (e) Removing mechanical impediments to the "vital life force" heightens the operation of "innate intelligence" naturally. (f) The universe and society are intrinsically good.

[kuri]

My brother has been a practicing Chiro for 20 some years, and has helped me out quite a few times.
However, unless there is cause for regular treatment, chronic ailment and/or injury, I am not aware of specific ways in which regular treatment would benefit you concerning fitness.

Many athletes receive regular adjustments, but those are people who are constantly stressing their bodies to the limit.

My brother was the team doc for the US rugby team, but he would only adjust them in cases of specific problems.

I'd advise you to ask a number of Chiros and research the matter before parting with your money on a regular basis.

Hope this helps.

[russ]

http://www.chiromed.org/

Here's an organisation worth researching if you're looking into Chiropractic treatment. They are very controversial within the profession------ some see them as wannabe MDs. However, it's hard to argue with their stance regarding the need for scientific evidence. I've noticed that every time a read an article in Men's Health about Chiropractic, individuals from this group are interviewed.

[TA Baracus]

I think it really depends on the chiropractor. I have gone to a couple, and some have helped, some haven't. I went to the same chiropractor for seven years up until a few months ago. He helped at first, using nerve tests to determine where I need to be adjusted. But after a few years (I only went when I got sore, about every few months although towards the end I was in pain every day) his treatments didn't work.

Now I go to a new chiro, who has helped tremendously. My neck was in real bad shape before seeing him, and now I rarely have pain and has helped me out alot. So really, it kind of depends on who you go to. It has greatly helped my neck and upper back problems.

[Q.]

I tried chiro and happened upon a guy who actually seemed to know something about training. He gave me a couple of suggestions that helped, particularly for strengthening my rotator cuff. I still do those exercises occasionally. However, I soon began to feel that the goal for him was to set me up with regular visits whether or not there was anything "wrong" with me... a constant revenue stream for him. I simply don't like going to any kind of medical person any more than I have to so I didn't bite on the regular visits.

At the time, I was doing a little research and seem to recall reading somewhere that the head of a chiropractic professional organization was even acknowledging that there's no scientific evidence to support the central premise of the practice... correction of subluxations. However, if it "works" for someone, I wouldn't criticize them for using this kind of treatment. I guess there are lots of things we do based on "faith" that bring us perceptible rewards.

[poopy pants]

chiro is worthless

a job for those who couldnt get into medical school so instead went to a strip mall college

[kuri]

Just a tad closed minded are we TS?

[brb, dc]

Wow, Tony S,
Those are some harsh words and as a Chiropractor, I feel sorry for you. You have yet to experience the benefits of my profession and from the sounds of it, you're not even open to the possibilty.

I can tell you that I have helped numerous people where there was no hope at all. After they've tried the popular way . . . drugs, surgery, PT (hundreds of thousands of $$) and were told that they would have to take meds for the rest of their life(more thousands of $$) and STILL be in pain.

Don't misunderstand me, there is a time and a place for that, but most people are ignorant to the conservative methods. ***"chiro's are worthless"***

Just like there are crooked lawyers, car salesmens, teachers . . . there are crooked chiropractors. Unfortunately, the horror stories get more attention than the success stories.

[russ]

Originally posted by brb, dc:
After they've tried the popular way . . . drugs, surgery, PT (hundreds of thousands of $$) and were told that they would have to take meds for the rest of their life(more thousands of $$) and STILL be in pain.

Since when is surgery a 'popular' method? I've read that about 30-40 million N. Americans seek chiro care each year. I'm pretty sure that there aren't 30-40 million back/neck surgeries per year. Moreover, plenty, if not most, of those surgeries are performed on people who have failed conservative methods, including chiro.

Anti-inflams may be overused in the setting of back pain--- I'll give you that.

You mentioned PT---do you know of any data from an indexed source demonstrating that outcomes are superior with chiro than PT? Or do you mean that selected cases may have superior outcomes with chiro as compared to PT?


Also, what is your opinion regarding routine SMT (i.e. , in asymptomatic folks)?

[poopy pants]

i was just kidding chiro isnt worthless

[brb, dc]

man, you guys need some valerian root. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Everyone loses when we close our eyes to other possibilites. you think I'm saying chiropractic is the magic bullet and everything else is worthless. that's not the case. I'm not saying that chiropractic works better than PT nor am I saying that PT works better than Chiro.
Like I stated earlier, there is a time and a place for Drugs, Surgery, PT AND Chiropractic.
Unfortunately most of the patients we see are those who have tried and failed at everything else.

I don't adjust people for the heck of it.

I know that by the time most people consider chiropractic, they need more than 1 or 2 adjustments to get them better. But I also know that there is a such thing as being overadjusted.

I believe that everyone should get CHECKED by a chiropractor periodically whether you have pain or not. (Do you wait until you have a toothache to go to the dentist?)

Finding a good chiropractor is just like finding a good MD or DDS. Ask around, get references, if they don't truly listen to your concerns and seem more interested in money, then they probably are. . . but don't turn your nose at the entire profession because of a few bad apples.

I've read that about 30-40 million N. Americans seek chiro care each year. I'm pretty sure that there aren't 30-40 million back/neck surgeries per year. Moreover, plenty, if not most, of those surgeries are performed on people who have failed conservative methods, including chiro.

Where's your data

[russ]

Originally posted by brb, dc:

quote:

---

I've read that about 30-40 million N. Americans seek chiro care each year. I'm pretty sure that there aren't 30-40 million back/neck surgeries per year. Moreover, plenty, if not most, of those surgeries are performed on people who have failed conservative methods, including chiro.

Where's your data [/quote]From http://www.amerchiro.org/media/faqs.shtml :

"According to results of a survey published in the November 11, 1998 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, approximately 11 percent of the population had visited a doctor of chiropractic in the previous year.² According to the US Census Bureau, today there are approximately 288 million people in the United States.³ Assuming the 11% annual figure has remained unchanged, the number of people who visit a chiropractor every year is now approximately 31.6 million. "

Add about 4-5 million/year in Canada.

Everyone loses when we close our eyes to other possibilites. you think I'm saying chiropractic is the magic bullet and everything else is worthless. that's not the case. I'm not saying that chiropractic works better than PT nor am I saying that PT works better than Chiro.
Like I stated earlier, there is a time and a place for Drugs, Surgery, PT AND Chiropractic.
Unfortunately most of the patients we see are those who have tried and failed at everything else.

I agree with the first few sentences. I'm not sure that I buy the last sentence, though. I'm willing to bet that a large % try chiro before PT. I'll agree with you that many patients may be taking meds before/during chiro treatment. My feeling is that chiro is actually the first choice for many people with back pain, but I'll see if I can find data to back that up.

I believe that everyone should get CHECKED by a chiropractor periodically whether you have pain or not. (Do you wait until you have a toothache to go to the dentist?)

Faulty comparison, I think. Mind you, I haven't spent very much time combing through the dental literature, so perhaps it is possible that there is no proven need to visit a dentist prior to a toothache. Anyhow, the fact that one visits a dentist prior to symptoms has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one needs a regular spinal check-up. The fact is, there is no quality data to suggest that one needs his spine checked regularly (I have done searches for such data). You may believe it to be so, but there really isn't any evidence to back you up. However, you're free to practice as you see fit, so if asymptomatic folks wish to visit your office, then more power to them......